toldailytopic: God, Satan, or man. Who is the cause of on sin?

[IXOYE]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Knight
God gets mad when we accuse Him of being the cause of sin. In fact He asks that we defend His name against such accusers.

James 1:13 Let no one say when he is tempted, “I am tempted by God”; for God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does He Himself tempt anyone. 14 But each one is tempted when he is drawn away by his own desires and enticed. 15 Then, when desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, brings forth death.

:first:

The highlighted part on the original post, drawn away by His own desires, that SARX or sinful nature Paul explains.

Did you know Paul explained it is removed from some, while alive, on earth.... col 2:11 what happens then?

 

[IXOYE]

Did God create the concept of love? Or was that a part of God's character for eternity past?

If you answer that God created love, then there was a point in history where God was not a loving God.

Clearly, God has never been a non-loving God.

The thing is... some things were not created because they have always been, such as:

- God Himself (God didn't create Himself)
- God's character and attributes (God didn't create His own character or attributes. God is.... and has always been.... who He is)

Acknowledging that these things were not created doesn't effect or make God any weaker. Instead, this acknowledgment is a cornerstone of an eternal righteous and loving God.

God created all things that were created. We don't need to mangle the statement any further than that.

This has turned into pure divisive debates that paul said shouldn't be debated. :|

If you claim something exists that God didn't create, ultimately you have removed the title OMNIPOTENT and OMNISCIENCE from Him. Because what power would he have over that which he didn't create?

 

[IXOYE]

Isaiah 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

better translates as calamities. Do some research on teh word, don't trust me.

Exodus 10:20 But the LORD hardened Pharaoh’s heart, so that he would not let the children of Israel go.

evil is a result of things within the creation.

God allowed it, willingly, to be here, and such, but to "create evil" is like creating insecurity. It's also a result of the creation. It's a verb,not a noun. Nouns were created, not verbs, nouns excerise options to create verbs within creation.

 

[IXOYE]

God himself is LOVE, he created it. ( Again, ALL things).

So, God created all things that were created, which are all things.

If God existed before creation, he's not a thing.

 

[elohiym]

How broadly do you interpret that? Do you think God causes all people to sin? Just some? How do you tell the difference?

I believe that God is the cause of all sin, not just some. My argument that God is cause of some sins was proven by the law against menstruation. The evidence that God is the cause of all sin is that man is animated by God's Spirit (breath of life --Jn 20:22), and without God's Spirit man would be inanimate dust (Ec 12:7). Humans who are unaware that all mankind possesses God's Spirit act as though they do not have the Spirit, and so we have the unrenewed spirit of God perpetrating evil (e.g. King David--Ps 51:10-11). Psalm 82 shows what I am telling you, that some men who are called children of God, necessitating they have God's Spirit, do not know, understand or believe that they are children of God and sin is the result of this ignorance of divine identity:

Psalm 82:5-7

5 They know not, neither will they understand; they walk on in darkness: all the foundations of the earth are out of course.
6 I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High.
7 But ye shall die like men, and fall like one of the princes.

I saw you bring Pharaoh up also. Do you believe that Pharaoh had no choice but to do what he did?

Pharaoh had no choice. Paul points that out in Romans 9.

 

[IXOYE]

God is light (1Jo 1:5). God said let there be light (Ge 1:3).

One is an anthropomorphic analogy, the other is what keeps you from breaking your shins when you walk.

That's like I can lead you to the lead pipe, if you will follow. :|

 

[IXOYE]

I've scanned through this thread and I don't see it, so I'll ask the obvious question.


What is sin?

1 john 1 describes it as darkness.

Paul describes it as self providence over Godly dependence.

Ultimately it's where you fail to be weak and dependent on God, and try to walk on your own strength.

 

[IXOYE]

God gave the law, and sin is transgression of His law (1Jo 3:4).
Paul said there was sin before the law.

God created woman to procreate (Ge 1:28),

and my bible says she's here as our helper.

causing the "uncleanness" that God later condemned in his law.

Had this sexaphobia long? Where did the fear or disgust come from?

He required a sin offering for menstruation (Le 15:30).

Wasn't it more of a ritually cleansing process, not a sin offering?

Through Christ, God's laws against menstruation were abrogated (Col 2:14; Eph 2:15). Women are no longer required to bring a sin offering and engage in purity rituals (Jn 15:3; Jn 13:10).

So when a woman under the law was required to bring a sin offering for her menstruation (Le 15:30), who was the cause of her sin?

I'm sorry you have such an aggressively negative view of how God sees women.

 

[IXOYE]

The Hebrew word used means evil in this context, as the King James translators recognized.

Isaiah 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.



In Romans 9, Paul addresses the context of Isaiah 45:7, and it appears his interpretation is the same as mine. God is the cause.

Romans 9:21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?

And you got that information from where..... the kjv only convention.

 

[elohiym]

God allowed it ...

A woman was brutally raped yesterday.

Did God allow it? Yes or no.

If I allowed a man to rape my wife, would you consider that evil in a sinful way? :think:

If God allows evil then He is at best unjust and at worst unreal. If He creates evil by the simple fact that His Spirit animates every living creature, then the Bible starts to make more sense on a number of levels.

 

[elohiym]

I'm sorry you have such an aggressively negative view of how God sees women.

I'm sorry you don't have an intelligent response to my argument.

 

[elohiym]

And you got that information from where..... the kjv only convention.

Those types of comments constitute spam. Please make an argument or put a sock in it. Thank you in advance.

 

[elohiym]

One is an anthropomorphic analogy, the other is what keeps you from breaking your shins when you walk.

God created the sun and moon on the fourth day, a few days after He said "Let there be light." So there's that. lain:

 

[Oreoracle]

I think I can ask a question analogous to the OP to perhaps make matters clearer: "Who is the cause of smoking: the tobacco planter, the corporations that sell cigarettes, or the consumer of cigarettes?"

The answer is all three. The planter creates the possibility of smoking, the corporations harness the raw materials and advertise it, and the consumer does it. Without their cooperation, smoking wouldn't occur.

Now, for Christians, God acts as the planter of sin, creating its possibility; Satan is like the corporations, popularizing sin itself; and mankind makes up the consumers by actually committing the sins.

I apologize if someone's given a similar answer. I haven't read all the posts.

 

[Psalmist]

God gets mad when we accuse Him of being the cause of sin. In fact He asks that we defend His name against such accusers.

James 1:13 Let no one say when he is tempted, “I am tempted by God”; for God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does He Himself tempt anyone. 14 But each one is tempted when he is drawn away by his own desires and enticed. 15 Then, when desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, brings forth death.

:first: Best answer. Pay attention to what Knight has posted...Truth! And I agree.​

Now for my ramblings...

toldailytopic: God, Satan, or man. Who is the cause of on sin?​

The question is sin not the whole of creation, but sin.

God? No, but is the creator of man and women, Adam and Eve. Yes, Isa. 45:7 is calamity and adversity.

Satan? He is the deceiver who took advantage of Eve then Adam. His being cast out of heaven, became the prince of darkness, whose thoughts and imagination are only continuously evil, and only wants to bring wretchedness, ruin and destruction on man and women, and when we are tempted by the tempter and carry the temptation out we have given birth to growing more sin and it continues. Will we ever learn? Satan got the idea of what if I start a counter attack on God with nothing but opposites of God, and having done that created sin, and was given birth, and sin when it is finished brings forth death. The only answer is Jesus to the sin question and problem, Jesus, got that.

Man? Man was deceived and has fallen for the deceiver's lies since that fall in the garden, and the deceiver entered in, man's thoughts have been continually evil, acted out daily. And the only solution for our sin problem is Jesus, He is the only cure for our sinful wantoness, lust, greed, vile behavior and our grass is greener syndrome, there is no other way, He is our great sympathetic Redeemer and Savior, without Him we would be set for eternal ruin and lost.​

 

[john w]

The word there isn't evil, it's calamity. God is describing His power and His ability to crush those that disobey Him and those that stand in the way of His people (Israel). He isn't saying He all the sudden turned evil, that would be the opposite of what God is all about. God creates calamity on those that reject Him and oppose Him, that's all He is saying in Isaiah 45, it's rather clear what God is saying when you read chapter 44 and 45 together.

We have discussed this one ad nauseum. God wanted Pharaoh to let His people go, right? Therefore the last thing God wanted was that the Pharaoh NOT let His people go. So God didn't flip a switch on the Pharaoh's heart and make the Pharaoh even more stubborn as that would have completely defeated God's desire.

Instead, God hardened Pharaoh's heart when God displayed His power towards the Pharaoh. The Pharaoh was prideful and the more God demonstrated His power the more the Pharaoh rejected God and the more the Pharaoh hardened his own heart.

Exodus 9:34 And when Pharaoh saw that the rain, the hail, and the thunder had ceased, he sinned yet more; and he hardened his heart, he and his servants.

The bottom line is... God doesn't want the Pharaoh to have a hard heart but God knows that by using His power against the Pharaoh it is causing the Pharaoh to further harden his own heart.

Exodus 8:32 But Pharaoh hardened his heart at this time also; neither would he let the people go.

And a question a Calvinist grinds his/her teeth over:If man is so utterly depraved, w/o the ability to respond, w/o first being "regenerated to be able to believe," just why the heck would the LORD God need to "harden" his already hardened, totally depraved, "unable to" heart?

Take it away LORD God. Sidebar.

 

[surrender]

The line of thinking that says God creates all evil leads one to believe that God’s kingdom is divided against itself. If God allowed sickness and disease because He wanted it, why did Jesus go about casting out demons and healing every kind of disease and every kind of sickness? Is God in conflict with Himself? Does He want us to be sick or does He want us to be healed? Sounds like a confused god. Jesus said that he couldn’t be casting out demons by Satan because a kingdom can’t be divided against itself (Matt. 12:25-38). The same logic forces the conclusion that Jesus couldn’t cast out demons and heal by the power of God if the demons and sickness were there by the will of God. God’s kingdom, like Satan’s kingdom, can’t be divided against itself.

 

[Tambora]

My answer to the OP is that God is the cause of sin because God creates evil.

Isaiah 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

(It should be understood that not all evil is sin.)

I agree with this.

We tend to define "evil" by our own definition.
But we must let the scriptures define what "evil" is.

Jeremiah 42
(10) If ye will still abide in this land, then will I build you, and not pull you down, and I will plant you, and not pluck you up: for I repent me of the evil that I have done unto you.
​

Not only does God create evil, but also does evil.

So you must combine all scriptures that speak of "evil" and draw a definition from them.

When scriptures speaks of "evil", it is not all about a perverse wickedness.
While the "evil" one might do may indeed sometimes include a perverse wickedness, it is not the exclusive underlying meaning of "evil" throughout scripture.

 

[IXOYE]

I'm sorry you don't have an intelligent response to my argument.

Let me use smaller words. You have a very negative view on women. I'm sorry you are a tribulation for them

 

[IXOYE]

So, you also believe that God created Himself?

Nope, can you show me where he said that, please?