toldailytopic: God, Satan, or man. Who is the cause of on sin?

[elohiym]

So, absent the law there would be no sin, right?

Absent the law there would be no basis for an accusation of judgment. However, the scriptures also state:

Romans 5:13 For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.

This should be interpreted as "until the old covenant (Law of Moses) sin was in the world," not that there is sin without transgression of the law. Abraham kept God's laws and ordinances (Ge 26:5) prior to "the law" Paul is speaking of in Romans 5:13.

Who is the cause of the law?

God.

 

[IXOYE]

Satan can tempt you, but not force you.
Man chose self providence over God, so ultimately sin is man not trusting God to provide and providing for himself.
The rich young ruler would have been mature, perfect/complete had he sold everything, and followed Jesus totally dependent on Him.

Peter asked how can we do that, we already do it. The answer, "man can't, but through God all things are possible." The moral, the weaker your spirit, the stronger in God.

GOD, knew the all of creation AT creation. Rather than linear perception every quark past present and future he's aware of simultaneously. Therefore He saw what sins you would make, before you were born in our time, and created it that way anyway.

So what that exists, is God not responsible for?

Any answer other than nothing, will be pedantic, and semantic, word squabbling. <<<< is that even a word?

bd

The TheologyOnline.com TOPIC OF THE DAY for June 27th, 2011 11:28 AM

toldailytopic: God, Satan, or man. Who is the cause of on sin?

Take the topic above and run with it! Slice it, dice it, give us your general thoughts about it. Everyday there will be a new TOL Topic of the Day.
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[kmoney]

The TheologyOnline.com TOPIC OF THE DAY for June 27th, 2011 11:28 AM

toldailytopic: God, Satan, or man. Who is the cause of on sin?

Anyone who sins is the cause of sin.

 

[kmoney]

toldailytopic: God, Satan, or man. Who is the cause of on sin?

God.

Isaiah 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

How broadly do you interpret that? Do you think God causes all people to sin? Just some? How do you tell the difference?


I saw you bring Pharaoh up also. Do you believe that Pharaoh had no choice but to do what he did? He could not have repented because God caused him to keep his hand against Israel?

 

[IXOYE]

sin is caused by our free will

There is no free will to the Mature believer. Mature by biblical standards not self proclamation.

gal 5:16

 

[elohiym]

Anyone who sins is the cause of sin.

John 8:34 Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.

How is the servant the cause of his master?

 

[IXOYE]

I would say free will creates the possibility for sin.

And, if God remakes your heart (desire) and mind (reasoning) is that still free will, he just stacked the deck.

And if God stacked the deck, are we going to outsmart Him and restack it?

 

[IXOYE]

The carnal mind has no free will, because if it did, it could be subject to the law of God.

Romans 8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

If you want to go to romans 8, no one has free will. You are serving one or the other, and it takes an act of God to break you free from the other. It's a monergistic race, with synergistic results.

if you serve flesh, you obey flesh.
if you serve God's Spirit you obey Him.
Romans 8:9 shows you can't serve both, and that both aren't present to bounce you back and forth.

 

[IXOYE]

God is the cause of it all.

The very same Bible that so many love to quote and use only as a bat tells them that, yet they continue to search the scriptures continuing to overlook the very message of the Scriptures.

One of the central messages is that God is in control of ALL things, and he(GOD)subjected the world to vanity and disobedience so that he might have mercy on it. He (GOD) created ALL things.

When this revelation is understood, a lot of other things can begin to be understood.

He created Good and Evil, God did it all!!

The verse that says God created evil wouldn't apply here. The "evil" there would be translated closest to calamities. People who weren't stuck in KJV land would have had that information.

 

[some other dude]

Absent the law there would be no basis for an accusation of judgment. However, the scriptures also state:

Romans 5:13 For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.

:think: Was there sin in the world before God created Adam?

 

[elohiym]

Is that a description of an evil act?

Yes, just as God described what he did to Israel as "evil."

Jeremiah 42:10 If ye will still abide in this land, then will I build you, and not pull you down, and I will plant you, and not pluck you up: for I repent me of the evil that I have done unto you.

I do see your point about perspectives, and I don't reject it. I believe the same, but do not conclude it is reason enough to set aside my interpretation of Isaiah 45:7. I believe based on a number of scriptures and reason that God creates all evil, the kind of evil that manifests as sin (transgression of the law) and the kind that is not sinful. I will attempt to clarify why I believe this in my response to Kmoney.

 

[IXOYE]

this is true
but
we and not God are responsible for it

God created our free will which made it possible for us to sin

I think your thought would more accurately expressed as We and not God are accountable for it.

I can't imagine something in the cosmos God isn't responsible for.

 

[IXOYE]

Either God created everything, or he created nothing. He created us to sin, that was the plan from the beginning.

Amen.

If man had not sinned,

they would never have been out of the Garden of Providence.

There would never have been need for Jesus on the Cross.

And there is no greater love than a man lay down his life for another.

Thus we'd never know Love. Specifically HIS Love....

 

[IXOYE]

God didn't create everything that exists. He didn't create love.

God is Love.

God exists outside of creation.

Love INSIDE the creation, is a result of God creating it.

 

[IXOYE]

sin is not a creation
and
the question is who is responsible for it

Well, it's a VERB not a NOUN, so of course it isn't a creation. So God creating it or not is the wrong question, as you have said it's who is "accountable" (my modification to your phrase), that we are searching for.

I'd argue every action God takes on earth, he does through a catalyst. Except maybe the comment at Jesus' baptism.

So sins, are through catalysts too, that he created, and knew they would sin, and created them anyway when he could have disallowed that ability.

 

[Nathon Detroit]

Jeremiah 42:10 If ye will still abide in this land, then will I build you, and not pull you down, and I will plant you, and not pluck you up: for I repent me of the evil that I have done unto you.

Again, evil isn't a very good translation of that word, disaster is a much more accurate word.

Jeremiah 42:10 ‘If you will still remain in this land, then I will build you and not pull you down, and I will plant you and not pluck you up. For I relent concerning the disaster that I have brought upon you.

But even still.... from the eyes of those that justice falls... they may perceive justice as evil since it certainly will not be pleasant when it happens.

It's a figure of speech! When the football coach says during his halftime pep talk... "lets unleash hell on these guys." The coach isn't summoning Lucifer to play nose guard in the second half for his team. Instead, he is using a common figure of speech that describes the fury in which they intend to play (in a good way), yet evil or disastrous from the perspective of the opponent.

 

[IXOYE]

Is God the Creator of Himself? If so, do you have anything in Scripture which would support this other than saying that God is the Creator of all things?

edit to add: If God created Himself, how did He come into existence in the first place in order to create Himself?

You are trying to define God, who existed before creation, with terms that apply ONLY inside the creation. it's never gonna work that way. Look what Calvin did with that on fore knew, etc.

 

[IXOYE]

So many people are so afraid to 'think' not to mention 'say' that God is responsible for ALL things. I am not sure why when the very Bible they claim to know so well tells them that over, over, over and over again.

Understanding this leads you out of fear and to walk in Love.

No wonder people can't truly love because they walk in fear of everything concerning God and his creation.

Religion has done a GREAT job at brainwashing, but God even has his hands in that.

Religion is ruled and based entirely on fear, it all ultimately serves his purposes one way or another though.

Knowing God is in control has released me to true rest, freedom, and love in Christ.

A powerful thing!

God blinds us so that he might eventually open our eyes.

WOW! I agree 100% with all of this, unless i misunderstood something. I'm in agreement with a Universalist!!!

Cause to celebrate.

 

[IXOYE]

Exegesis would point out, this verse applies to temptation, which is Luci's domain.

A temptation you face, is not a sin, it's a temptation.


God provides for that, if you walk by the Spirit you won't give in to temptation.
If you ever walked by God once, it would require a temptation to leave him.
Therefore as I still sin, I'm pretty sure I'm not walking by the Spirit yet. But at least I know that, and continue to run the race, rather than sit on my laurels...

God gets mad when we accuse Him of being the cause of sin. In fact He asks that we defend His name against such accusers.

James 1:13 Let no one say when he is tempted, “I am tempted by God”; for God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does He Himself tempt anyone. 14 But each one is tempted when he is drawn away by his own desires and enticed. 15 Then, when desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, brings forth death.

 

[surrender]

WOW! I agree 100% with all of this, unless i misunderstood something. I'm in agreement with a Universalist!!!

Cause to celebrate.

So, you also believe that God created Himself?