toldailytopic: God, Satan, or man. Who is the cause of on sin?

[surrender]

There is no other besides God, no other, he has always been.

So now you agree that God did not create Himself? (scratching head)

What is your answer? Who do you say created God? You seem to know ..

No one created God. No thing created God. God is the only self-existent, eternal one.

God is everlasting (Isa. 40:28).
God is eternal (Rom. 16:26; 1 Tim. 1:17).
God's name "ehyeh" means "to be" (Ex. 3:14).

 

[elohiym]

So before God created love, God was not loving. Is that correct?

God is light (1Jo 1:5). God said let there be light (Ge 1:3).

 

[some other dude]

I've scanned through this thread and I don't see it, so I'll ask the obvious question.


What is sin?

 

[surrender]

What in the world are you talking about? I said God created all things, that includes himself.

God Created ALL THINGS. There was never a time he (GOD) did not exist.

What is your point?

My point is that you can’t have it both ways. You say there was never a time God did not exist. I agree. Then you say that God created Himself. That’s contradictory to your first statement about God always existing. You can’t have it both ways because it’s completely nonsensical. If God created Himself, that necessarily means there was time He did not exist (which is, of course, logically absurd). Unless you mean to say there are two God's: one that has always existed and one that was created by the one that has always existed.

 

[Nick M]

He is the creator of all things.

Sin is like time. It isn't a physical thing. It is a concept to describe our rebellion against God.

 

[surrender]

God is light (1Jo 1:5). God said let there be light (Ge 1:3).

Actually, you've just answered the OP with the verse you've given (or, at least, narrowed it down).

The first Scripture you've given refers to goodness and evil. The second refers to what can be seen with your eyes. Read the verse following 1 John 1:5, "If we say that we have fellowship with Him and yet walk in the darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth." John is not talking about walking in pitch blackness (we've all had to walk around in pitch blackness sometime in our lives!); John is talking about waking in evil. So, when John writes, "God is light, and in Him there is no darkness at all," John is saying "God is good, and in Him there is no evil at all."

The other Scripture you've given, Gen. 1:3, is about the light that you can see with your eyes. Read the verse prior to it, "The earth was formless and void, and darkness was over the surface of the deep." It was not evil over the surface of the deep; it was pitch blackness (no light).

 

[elohiym]

God gave the law, and sin is transgression of His law (1Jo 3:4).

God created woman to procreate (Ge 1:28), causing the "uncleanness" that God later condemned in his law. He required a sin offering for menstruation (Le 15:30).

Through Christ, God's laws against menstruation were abrogated (Col 2:14; Eph 2:15). Women are no longer required to bring a sin offering and engage in purity rituals (Jn 15:3; Jn 13:10).

So when a woman under the law was required to bring a sin offering for her menstruation (Le 15:30), who was the cause of her sin?

 

[elohiym]

I've scanned through this thread and I don't see it, so I'll ask the obvious question.


What is sin?

1Jo 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

 

[Nathon Detroit]

Isaiah 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

The word there isn't evil, it's calamity. God is describing His power and His ability to crush those that disobey Him and those that stand in the way of His people (Israel). He isn't saying He all the sudden turned evil, that would be the opposite of what God is all about. God creates calamity on those that reject Him and oppose Him, that's all He is saying in Isaiah 45, it's rather clear what God is saying when you read chapter 44 and 45 together.

Exodus 10:20 But the LORD hardened Pharaoh’s heart, so that he would not let the children of Israel go.

We have discussed this one ad nauseum. God wanted Pharaoh to let His people go, right? Therefore the last thing God wanted was that the Pharaoh NOT let His people go. So God didn't flip a switch on the Pharaoh's heart and make the Pharaoh even more stubborn as that would have completely defeated God's desire.

Instead, God hardened Pharaoh's heart when God displayed His power towards the Pharaoh. The Pharaoh was prideful and the more God demonstrated His power the more the Pharaoh rejected God and the more the Pharaoh hardened his own heart.

Exodus 9:34 And when Pharaoh saw that the rain, the hail, and the thunder had ceased, he sinned yet more; and he hardened his heart, he and his servants.

The bottom line is... God doesn't want the Pharaoh to have a hard heart but God knows that by using His power against the Pharaoh it is causing the Pharaoh to further harden his own heart.

Exodus 8:32 But Pharaoh hardened his heart at this time also; neither would he let the people go.

 

[elohiym]

Actually, you've just answered the OP with the verse you've given...

My answer to the OP is that God is the cause of sin because God creates evil.

Isaiah 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

(It should be understood that not all evil is sin.)

 

[Rusha]

Well, according to the Bible, God is responsible for the creation of the universe and the creation of mankind.

IF one really does not want individuals to *sin*, then why allow it to exist?

 

[surrender]

My answer to the OP is that God is the cause of sin because God creates evil.

Isaiah 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

(It should be understood that not all evil is sin.)

What are some examples of evil that God created?

 

[elohiym]

The word there isn't evil, it's calamity.

The Hebrew word used means evil in this context, as the King James translators recognized.

Isaiah 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

The bottom line is... God doesn't want the Pharaoh to have a hard heart but God knows that by using His power against the Pharaoh it is causing the Pharaoh to further harden his own heart.

In Romans 9, Paul addresses the context of Isaiah 45:7, and it appears his interpretation is the same as mine. God is the cause.

Romans 9:21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?

 

[elohiym]

IF one really does not want individuals to *sin*, then why allow it to exist?

Right. You point out the logical problem of evil.

 

[elohiym]

What are some examples of evil that God created?

There are no examples of evil that God doesn't create.

 

[Nihilo]

Creation works according to this simple formula: What will be will be.

And what will be, depends upon what we sow; we will reap what we grow.

We will grow what we sow, and what we protect from birds who eat seeds before they sprout.

If we remove rocks so the soil is deep, and remove the thorns and tares that choke out the crop, then we will grow and reap bountifully.

If the birds eat the seed before it sprouts, the harvest will be nil, and if we sow seeds in rocky soil, or if the crop is choked out by thorns and tares, then the harvest will be slight.

So the Law is: Sow seeds of blessings bountifully, drive away the birds that would eat them before they sprout, remove the rocks so the soil is deep, and remove any thorns and tares, so that your harvest of blessings will be bountiful.

And: Sow seeds of destruction sparingly or not at all. If you do sow seeds of destruction, invite the birds to come and eat them before they sprout, sow them in rocky soil, or sow them among thorns and tares, to minimize your harvest of destruction.

 

[elohiym]

What are some examples of evil that God created?

God gave the law, and sin is transgression of His law (1Jo 3:4).

God created woman to procreate (Ge 1:28), causing the "uncleanness" that God later condemned in his law. He required a sin offering for menstruation (Le 15:30).

Through Christ, God's laws against menstruation were abrogated (Col 2:14; Eph 2:15). Women are no longer required to bring a sin offering and engage in purity rituals (Jn 15:3; Jn 13:10).

So when a woman under the law was required to bring a sin offering for her menstruation (Le 15:30), who was the cause of her sin?

 

[some other dude]

1Jo 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

So, absent the law there would be no sin, right?

Who is the cause of the law?

 

[Nathon Detroit]

The Hebrew word used means evil in this context, as the King James translators recognized.

Isaiah 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

The things that God is describing doing to those that stand in His way in Isaiah 44 and 45 are those things evil??? Or are they merely calamity or evil from the perspective of the people that will be receiving the punishment? For instance, a US general in WWI might have said... we are going to send evil down upon those Nazi's!!

The general isn't saying that the US army is all the sudden an advocate of evil. Instead he is using a figure of speech to describe how awful it's going to be for those Nazi's when justice is served.

Answer me this....

Throughout Isaiah 44 and 45 is God describing sending evil... or justice?

Case in point....

Isaiah 45:1 “Thus says the LORD to His anointed, To Cyrus, whose right hand I have held — To subdue nations before him And loose the armor of kings, To open before him the double doors, So that the gates will not be shut: 2 ‘I will go before you And make the crooked places straight; I will break in pieces the gates of bronze And cut the bars of iron.

Is that a description of an evil act?

 

[eameece]

Who is the cause of on sin? God, Satan or man?

Sin is making a mistake, missing the mark. You can say God created it, in the sense that he allows it as part of His (our) life. If everything is already perfect, there is no game. We grow through obstacles. That seems to be part of God realizing Him (It, Her) self as us.

The mistake is not being conscious, but reacting and taken over by impulses or temptations, from within ourselves or outside. In sin we are possessed, and people use the word Satan or Devil to describe this state of being possessed instead of self-possessed; but there is no literal Devil, nor any other power but the divine power. Sin is only ignorance. Buddha identified it as craving or attachment. Jesus said "forgive them Father for they know not what they do." We need to learn to be conscious, active, powerful, open to spiritual guidance.