God created the sun and moon on the fourth day, a few days after He said "Let there be light." So there's that.lain:
So, apparently, if those two previous vss are correct, god didn't exist until the fourth day. That is a bit problematic for me.
toldailytopic: God, Satan, or man. Who is the cause of on sin?
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So, apparently, if those two previous vss are correct, god didn't exist until the fourth day. That is a bit problematic for me.
I think I messed HP your quite sorry, on the fone.
I just wanted to say, UMMMMMMMMM WINNING!
You can go back and read his posts if you'd like. Or just ask him. He does not deny that he believes God created Himself. If he does deny it, great, just say so. Pretty simple.
To say god didn't create evil, takes away his omnipotence, and his sovereignty, because you have something that BECAME, without God's hand, or will, and God can't stop it.
Also, the chat tangent on evil is pointless. We can't even tell what is evil. I nearly died today, I survived. Next week I meet a young man, and one innocent phrase I said, leads his mind down a path, that grows and grows, and he does.some evil act that is atrocious. God was not evil by saving my worthless life. God caused more evil by letting me live. Perhaps Israel wouldn't be a nation today if Adolph had not done his thing, then the Messiah would not be close to returning, and more things happen.
When we discuss evils things, we cant see the consequences to judge them. HE does.
Evil..... is a word that is ME centric, and is usually defined as something I would not desire to happen to me. Because, well, tell me some of the things that happened outside of god's awareness and control.
A last question to the dads here. If you killed your son, would people assume that was evil?
Well, like I said, if you believe God creates and wills and performs evil, then God's kingdom is divided against itself. Just because I had a baby and want that baby to continue to live while knowing that baby will grow up and eventually commit sin does not mean that I want him to commit sin or will him to commit sin.
"The word there isn't evil, it's calamity."-Knight
"Out of the mouth of the most High proceedeth not evil and good?" Lam. 3:38
The word "evil," in the context, is not talking about sin, but the result and inevitable punishment for sin, i.e., calamity, sorrow, oppression, distress,misery, brought about by the LORD God as a result of people's sins, used in the sense of the prophet Jeremiah above.
And in Isaiah 45:7, who is the LORD God talking to? Cyrus, a Persian, who had a dualistic concept of "god" and the world. Check it out. Their "good god" was Ahurah-mazda, the creator of light, their "evil god" was Angra-mainya, the creator of darkness. God was merely removing all ground for this dualism when He says He is the creator of both light and darkness and of peace and evil.
"Evil" used in the same sense here:
"Shall a trumpet be blown in the city, and the people not be afraid? shall there be evil in a city, and the LORD hath not done it?" Amos 3:6
Yes, the LORD God does make use of calamity, "evil," brought about by individual sins(2 Sam. 17:14, 1 Kings 14:10, 21:21) and sins of nations(Neh. 13:18, Ezek. 14:22, Daniel 9:14) to bring forth the ultimate good. But notice in these examples, it is pertaining to His "elect to service"-the nation Israel.
Read it:
"Therefore hearken unto me ye men of understanding: far be it from God, that he should do wickedness; and from the Almighty, that he should commit iniquity." Job 34:10
"For thou art not a God that hath pleasure in wickedness: neither shall evil dwell with thee." Psalms 5:4
"Thou art of purer eyes than to behold evil, and canst not look on iniquity: wherefore lookest thou upon them that deal treacherously, and holdest thy tongue when the wicked devoureth the man that is more righteous than he?" Hab 1:13
Read Jer. 19:3-5.
"..I will bring evil......"-disaster, calamity, distress,... not "moral evil"
Why?
"Because they have forsaken me, and have enstranged this place, and have burned incense..........................which I commanded not, nor spake it, neither came it unto my mind."
Read it-which I commanded not, nor spake it, neither came it unto my mind=He did not "decree evil".
The LORD God brought the "evil," calamity, because of the people's sins, their depravity, not the LORD God's.
God orders all things according to His eternal decree
God orders all things according to His eternal decree
God works all things after the counsel of His own will. Those who look for an excuse to blame God refuse to acknowledge that God's motive in an event is always pure, just, and for His own glory.
The fact that the motives of evil men seek ways is to defeat God does not overcome Him in any way. "Even the wrath of men will praise thee and the remainder of wrath you will restrain." That is, God does not allow anything which does not redound to God's glory.
Through men are wicked in their own motives, God's purpose is proper. Those who do not accept this as true do so only because they themselves are looking for some fault in God.
God orders all things according to His eternal decree
God works all things after the counsel of His own will. Those who look for an excuse to blame God refuse to acknowledge that God's motive in an event is always pure, just, and for His own glory.
The fact that the motives of evil men seek ways is to defeat God does not overcome Him in any way. "Even the wrath of men will praise thee and the remainder of wrath you will restrain." That is, God does not allow anything which does not redound to God's glory.
Through men are wicked in their own motives, God's purpose is proper. Those who do not accept this as true do so only because they themselves are looking for some fault in God.
elohiym
Well-known member
Non sequitur.
But I'll save us both some time here. I don't believe that God is created, so if you have another point please make it.
I don't speak computer/internet jargon language, or engage in "casual text." Connect the dots for me. My second language is sarcasm. Hit me on that level.
elohiym
Well-known member
Do you believe that God created the calamity and adversity the people in the World Trade Center experienced on September 11, 2001?
Domesticated
New member
The same reason people have children all day, every day, all over the world knowing full well they're going do precisely what you told them not do to. And probably hurt themselves. Or someone else. Or both. About a hundred thousand times before they turn thirteen.
Because kids are amazing. And if you're lucky they grow up to be even more amazing. Despite that time I stuck a butter knife in the kitchen outlet, got the piddles shocked out of me and got a whuppin' for it because I was told not to do that.
I mean them. They. Despite the time that they stuck a butter knife...
Whatever. You know what I mean.
Alas, I've been found out. I'm dumber than a plumb and have the brains of of a melon.
What do you think. NO, there. And most translations use the word calamity and adversity.
What do you think. NO, there. And most translations use the word calamity and adversity.
That's a great way to put it. :up:
Obviously we don't. Do you?
Universalist
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Let me say it again, there was never a time God did not exist.
So, that is the final answer to the question.
I ended up nominating this post because it blows out of the water all arguments that God is responsible for sin.
Now to my reasons why I don't hold to the view that God created sin: First off sin is an act of the will, not an object or created thing. You can't hold sin in your hand. God created us as beings with a free will. We are responsible for our own actions, not God. Satan doesn't even carry the responsibility for the sin of mankind. Adam and Eve could have chosen to ignore Satan's temptation. But they didn't. They bought into the deception. Just like today, they are buying the lie that they are not responsible for their sinful behavior. I was born like this. Satan breaks out the same old lies because people buy them and the blame rests squarely on the shoulders of mankind for ignoring God and doing what is right in their own eyes.
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I'd have a beer with you any day at a violin bar.
God manifeting himself physically isn't being created. He always existed.
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