ECT The Same Yesterday, and Today, and For Ever

I

Interplanner

Well-known member
I'm saying the NT is the official interp of all of the above. Not what it 'looks like' to us or even to Judaism. that's why Paul said he used to read the thing 'kata sarka' until he was in Christ, in 2 Cor 5. He no longer reads it that way.

The only thing that can resolve 'Abraham believed and it was credited for righteousness' is the apostle's interp, not ours.
 
john w

john w

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Jerry Shugart said:
The appearing of the Lord Jesus mentioned at 1 John 3:2 is the same one spoken by James in the following verse:

"You too, be patient and stand firm, because the Lord's coming is near" (James 5:8).​

The Greek word translated "is near" at James 5:8 is eggizo and in this verse that word means "to be imminent" (A Greek English Lexicon, Liddell & Scott [Oxford: Clarendon Press, 1940], 467).

In an article found on the "Pre-Trib Research Center" web site Dr. Renald E. Showers writes:

"In light of James' statements C. Leslie Mitton wrote, 'James clearly believed, as others of his time did, that the coming of Christ was imminent.' On the basis of James' statements we can conclude that Christ's coming was imminent in New Testament times and continues to be so today, and that this fact should make a difference in the way Christians live" [emphasis added] (Showers, The Imminent Coming of Christ).​

That is exactly the same appearance of which Paul speaks here:

"For our citizenship is in heaven; from whence also we look for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ: Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body...The Lord is at hand (eggus)" (Phil.3:20-21;4:5).

The Greek word eggus means "of times imminent and soon to come to pass" (Thayer's Greek English Lexicon).

And here John speaks of the same appearance and he refers to it as a "hope":

"Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is. And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure" (1 Jn.3:2-3).​

That is referring to the same exact thing which Paul speaks of in the following verse:

"Awaiting our blessed hope, and the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ" (Titus 2:13).​

Same hope, same appearing, and the same imminent appearance. And since there can be only one imminent appearance and since only those in the Body are expecting that imminent appearance then it becomes obvious that those who received the Hebrew epistles in the first century were all baptized into the Body of Christ:

"For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit" (1 Cor.12:13).​

If the Apostle John was expecting the Lord Jesus to be in the same blood and bone body when He appears to the saints then it would make no sense for him to say the following:

"Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is" (1 Jn.3:2).​

The discussion about being made like Him revolves around "seeing Him as He is." It will not be until they "see Him" that they will know what kind of body they will have.

If the saints were expecting that the Lord Jesus was going to appear in a flesh and bone body and they were going to be made like Him then they would know exactly what they will be like when He appears.

Now for my recap. If you have changed your view about any of your ideas let me know.

You think that a spiritual body is a house made with hands.

You think that a spiritual body is a natural body minus the blood.

You think that the Lord Jesus' heavenly body of which John was given a vision is the same body seen by many people after He was raised from the dead: "His eyes were as a flame of fire...and his countenance was as the sun shineth in his strength."

Even though the saints were not expecting the Lord Jesus to return in a flesh and bone body you are absolutely sure that He will.
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Flesh and bone....I addressed 1 John 3 ff, already, in a brilliant exposition, but you could not bear it.....You choked....Stay with the milk, kid, as I provided you way too much meat. I apologize, kid.
 
I

Interplanner

Well-known member
Jerry Shugart said:
So are you saying that the LORD lied at Jeremiah 31:32 about the identity of the "fathers" of those who will receive the blessings of the New Covenant?

You have been deceived!
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The other aspect of this Jerry is that the NT consistently refers to the believers among Israel when praising those in the old covenant; not all of them. Hence there is Israel #1 and #2 in Romans 9.
 
God's Truth

God's Truth

New member
Interplanner said:
The NT does not track the flesh. The 'Hebrews' of the letter are those who have faith like in ch 11, not those who cow to Judaism.
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John 1:13 children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband's will, but born of God.


That is the Gospel according to John.

Not of 'natural descent' means NOT BECAUSE SOMEONE is BLOOD RELATED to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.

Many here just don't get that.
 
God's Truth

God's Truth

New member
Jerry Shugart said:
His essential nature never changed. Paul compares the body to clothing which a person puts on (2 Cor.5:2). So a change in clothes does not change the essential nature of a person.

Paul speaks of both the inner man and the outward man. The inner man is the soul and the outward man refers to man in his body.
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The inner man IS THE SPIRIT.

A soul is a physical living person.

The Bible talks about the spirit of a man being the real man and not his flesh.

The body dies, the soul dies, but the spirit lives on in consciousness.

Jesus came as a man in the flesh, but his spirit is the Spirit of God the Father come as a man's spirit.

There is ONLY ONE DIVINE SPIRIT, and Jesus' spirit, IS the Spirit of the one and only God the Father come as a man.
 
God's Truth

God's Truth

New member
A Living Human: flesh + spirit = living soul

A Dead Human/no more soul: flesh - spirit = decayed body on earth and a spirit living in hell or heaven.


No such thing now as a soul going to heaven or hell.

No such thing as a soul ever going to heaven; spirits go to heaven, not souls.

For now, only the spirit goes to heaven or hell.

When we are resurrected from the dead, meaning our spirit is united with a new physical body...then that new soul can be thrown in hell, the final hell, the lake of fire; and the saved live on the new earth in their eternal body/soul on the new earth with God.
 
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I

Interplanner

Well-known member
Jerry Shugart said:
No, it is the soul. It is the soul which dies spiritually when a person sins and and it is the soul which is saved by the gospel (1 Pet.1:9).
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This doesn't really work. 'Your spirit is made alive by righteousness' Romans, and 'yet in my flesh will I see God' so our bodies matter.
 
D

Danoh

New member
Interplanner said:
This doesn't really work. 'Your spirit is made alive by righteousness' Romans, and 'yet in my flesh will I see God' so our bodies matter.
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Jerry does not agree with the Apostle Paul that sin (the nature) dwells in one, where it lays dormant until it is revived by one thing or another in life, to become one's map of reality...if...allowed to.

As simple as all that actually is, Jerry simply hasn't a clue of the actual dynamic being described in such as Romans 6-8, or say, in James 1, 1 John 3, and so on.

:doh:

Rom. 5: 6-8.
 
D

Danoh

New member
Jerry Shugart said:
So sin is a substance which can dwell in a person's body?
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No, it is a life force, a nature: the flesh.

Thus, its fleshly mind.

Its deceitful lusts, and so on.

It is why we still sin, when we do.

Sin revives and we die.

Thus, the need to die daily.

That we might live...

Not unto sin, but unto God.

One lord, or The Other.

The whole things is a fascinating dynamic.

But this is all beyond your comprehension.

That much is clear.

Rom. 5: 6-8.
 
glorydaz

glorydaz

Well-known member
Jerry Shugart said:
His essential nature never changed. Paul compares the body to clothing which a person puts on (2 Cor.5:2). So a change in clothes does not change the essential nature of a person.

Paul speaks of both the inner man and the outward man. The inner man is the soul and the outward man refers to man in his body.
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John 1:1 and John 1:14 says otherwise, Jerry.

What never changes is His faithfulness, which is what the verse in Hebrews is talking about. This has nothing to do with the inner and outward man.

Heb. 13:5-6 Let your conversation be without covetousness; and be content with such things as ye have: for he hath said, I will never leave thee, nor forsake thee. 6 So that we may boldly say, The Lord is my helper, and I will not fear what man shall do unto me.​

The author is reminding them that the faithfulness of God is still present in the person of Jesus Christ. "As I was with Moses...."

Joshua 1:5
5 There shall not any man be able to stand before thee all the days of thy life: as I was with Moses, so I will be with thee: I will not fail thee, nor forsake thee.​
 
glorydaz

glorydaz

Well-known member
Danoh said:
No, it is a life force, a nature: the flesh.

Thus, its fleshly mind.

Its deceitful lusts, and so on.

It is why we still sin, when we do.

Sin revives and we die.

Thus, the need to die daily.

That we might live...

Not unto sin, but unto God.

One lord, or The Other.

The whole things is a fascinating dynamic.

But this is all beyond your comprehension.

That much is clear.

Rom. 5: 6-8.
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Marhig, you've returned under a new name.....:chuckle:
 
meshak

meshak

BANNED
Banned
Danoh said:
No, it is a life force, a nature: the flesh.

Thus, its fleshly mind.

Its deceitful lusts, and so on.

It is why we still sin, when we do.

Sin revives and we die.

Thus, the need to die daily.

That we might live...

Not unto sin, but unto God.

One lord, or The Other.

The whole things is a fascinating dynamic.

But this is all beyond your comprehension.

That much is clear.

Rom. 5: 6-8.
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this makes sense, thank you:)
 
D

Danoh

New member
glorydaz said:
Marhig, you've returned under a new name.....:chuckle:
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I forget, you believe you don't need to put on Christ...that you don't need to die daily...

You and your holiness movement doctrine.

Yo, Jerry - you're not the only non MAD "MAD" on here, say hello to your fellow neo-hybrid-mad, GD.

:rotfl:

Rom. 5: 6-8.
 
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