ECT The Same Yesterday, and Today, and For Ever

[God's Truth]

What silly ideas are you talking about? The ones you've been putting out where He is invisible but looks like what John saw in Revelation? Which one is it? Invisible or not?

Answer me this....If the Lord Jesus had flesh like ours, how did he walk through walls, and appear and reappear at will?

I do not agree with everything Jerry says, but as for what you said about Jesus walking through walls and appearing and reappearing---Jesus had Philip do that, and also a boat and everyone on it.

John 6:21 Then they were willing to take him into the boat, and immediately the boat reached the shore where they were heading.

Acts 8:39 When they came up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord suddenly took Philip away, and the eunuch did not see him again, but went on his way rejoicing.

 

[glorydaz]

The Lord Jesus came down from heaven as a Man so that can only mean that He was Man before He was born of Mary:

"And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven" (Jn.3:13).​

The words here are very specific and they are saying that no MAN hath ascended up to heaven except the MAN who came down from heaven, and that is speaking about the MAN Jesus Christ. He came down from heaven as a MAN and He ascended into heaven as a MAN.

Nope, you have added the words "as a man". They only exist in your own imagination.

 

[glorydaz]

I do not agree with everything Jerry says, but as for what you said about Jesus walking through walls and appearing and reappearing---Jesus had Philip do that, and also a boat and everyone on it.

John 6:21 Then they were willing to take him into the boat, and immediately the boat reached the shore where they were heading.

I didn't read his post. Not that it will prove what he is trying to prove.

 

[God's Truth]

I didn't read his post. Not that it will prove what he is trying to prove.

I haven't hardly read any of his posts; I just wanted to point out that Jesus had humans do supernatural disappearing and reapearing.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Nope, you have added the words "as a man". They only exist in your own imagination.

What do you think that the words "Son of Man" mean in the verse?

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Yes, you did, as you argue that biblical words, such as "gospel," invisible," all mean the same thing when employed, as context is irrelevant.

So when the word "invisible" is used in regard to the Father it has an entirely different meaning than when it is used of the Son?

Even though we read the following about the Son?:

"Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature" (Col.1:15).​

The Son is the image of the "invisible" God. Since you insist that that when the Scriptures speak of the Son being "invisible" that word is just referring to Him being out of sight and nothing more.

And since the Son is the image of the "invisible" God then, according to your reasoning, the invisible God is just out of sight and nothing more.

Is that what you believe?

Or are you going to argue that even though the Son is the image of the "invisible" God that only the Father cannot be seen but the Son can be seen.

You idea that the Lord Jesus is now in the eternal kingdom in a flesh and bone body (minus His blood) is laughable. Paul describes the kind of body which the Christian will put on in the future that will be just like the Lord Jesus' body as "not made with hands" (2 Cor.5:1). That can only be in reference to the "natural" body opposed to a "spiritual" body in which Christians will be raised up.

But you say that the Lord Jesus has been raised up in a body made with hands, or the same body of flesh which He possessed when He emerged from Mary's womb.

You think that the only difference between a natural body and a spiritual body is that the spiritual body is just the natural body with the blood removed!

At least you are good for a laugh every now and then!

Why should I believe you, instead of the scriptures?

I await your Scriptures which demonstrate that a spiritual body is nothing but a natural body without the blood.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Answer me this....If the Lord Jesus had flesh like ours, how did he walk through walls, and appear and reappear at will?

Our new, spiritual body will be able to adapt to it's environment. That body will be transformed into an earthly body while on the earth and a spiritual body when in the eternal state.

I believe that the Lord Jesus received such a body and when He was raised up that body had supernatural qualities. After He was raised up he appeared to Mary and she didn't recognize Him (Jn.20:15-16).He was able just appear in a room while the door was closed (Jn.20:19).

So I am not saying that a spiritual body is a body like Casper but instead it is a body belonging to the spiritual sphere, the eternal state. While we now live in a creation with three dimensions (or four if you count "time") the eternal state could have many more. I believe that the new, spiritual bodies will have more substance and beauty than our natural bodies and will resemble the body of the Lord Jesus as He is in the eternal state now (Rev.1:13-16).

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Our new, spiritual body will be able to adapt to it's environment. That body will be transformed into an earthly body while on the earth and a spiritual body when in the spiritual sphere.

I believe that the Lord Jesus received such a body and when He was raised up that body had supernatural qualities. After He was raised up he appeared to Mary and she didn't recognize Him (Jn.20:15-16).He was able just appear in a room while the door was closed (Jn.20:19).

So I am not saying that a spiritual body is a body like Casper but instead it is a body belonging to the spiritual sphere, the eternal state. While we now live in a creation with three dimensions (or four if you count "time") the eternal state could have many more. I believe that the new, spiritual bodies will have more substance and beauty than our natural bodies and will resemble the body of the Lord Jesus as He is in the eternal state now (Rev.1:13-16).

 

[john w]

So when the word "invisible" is used in regard to the Father it has an entirely different meaning than when it is used of the Son?

Even though we read the following about the Son?:

"Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature" (Col.1:15).​

The Son is the image of the "invisible" God. Since you insist that that when the Scriptures speak of the Son being "invisible" that word is just referring to Him being out of sight and nothing more.

And since the Son is the image of the "invisible" God then, according to your reasoning, the invisible God is just out of sight and nothing more.

Is that what you believe?

Or are you going to argue that even though the Son is the image of the "invisible" God that only the Father cannot be seen but the Son can be seen.

You idea that the Lord Jesus is now in the eternal kingdom in a flesh and bone body (minus His blood) is laughable. Paul describes the kind of body which the Christian will put on in the future that will be just like the Lord Jesus' body as "not made with hands" (2 Cor.5:1). That can only be in reference to the "natural" body opposed to a "spiritual" body in which Christians will be raised up.

But you say that the Lord Jesus has been raised up in a body made with hands, or the same body of flesh which He possessed when He emerged from Mary's womb.

You think that the only difference between a natural body and a spiritual body is that the spiritual body is just the natural body with the blood removed!

At least you are good for a laugh every now and then!



I await your Scriptures which demonstrate that a spiritual body is nothing but a natural body without the blood.

So when the word "invisible" is used in regard to the Father it has an entirely different meaning than when it is used of the Son?

So when the word "gospel" is used in the scriptures, it has an entirely different meaning, than when it is used when Judas was told to preach the "good news," gospel?

Slower:


Yyou argue that biblical words, such as "gospel," invisible," all mean the same thing when employed, as context is irrelevant.



Colossians 1:15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:



You: This "Jesus," while on earth, was visible. Thus, since God is invisible, this "Jesus" was/is not God. You: You assert that Judas preached the 1 Cor. 15:1-4 gospel, per Luke 9:6 KJV.

On record.

Your little scheme is unwinding and that is why you just flat out refuse to answer my questions:



Your big scheme of asserting that all biblical words, when employed, mean the same, regardless of the context, is falling apart.

Fun!

Chapter, verse, where I am required to answer any/all questions?

Why do you refuse to answer anyone's questions on TOL?

Fun?


And why should we believe you, instead of the bible?


Fun!

Do you think that since the Father is both spirit and invisible He is just out of sight?And since the Lord Jesus is the image of the invisible God and He too is described as being "invisible" that He is just out of sight?

1.No. I explained my reasoning, from the scriptures.

2. Why do you think that biblical words, such as "gospel," invisible," all mean the same thing,when employed, as context is irrelevant?

Again....

3.
Colossians 1:15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:



You: This "Jesus," while on earth, was visible. Thus, since God is invisible, this "Jesus" was/is not God.
=And since the Lord Jesus is the image of the invisible God, but visible on earth, and God too is described as being "invisible," that means that He is not God, since the context od the word "invisible" is irrelevant?

Fun!

Why should I believe you, instead of the scriptures?

 

[john w]

The Son is the image of the "invisible" God. Since you insist that that when the Scriptures speak of the Son being "invisible" that word is just referring to Him being out of sight and nothing more.

And since the Son is the image of the "invisible" God then, according to your reasoning, the invisible God is just out of sight and nothing more.

Is that what you believe?

3.
Colossians 1:15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:



You: This "Jesus," while on earth, was visible. Thus, since God is invisible, this "Jesus" was/is not God.
=And since the Lord Jesus is the image of the invisible God, but visible on earth, and God too is described as being "invisible," that means that He is not God, since the context od the word "invisible" is irrelevant?

You idea that the Lord Jesus is now in the eternal kingdom in a flesh and bone body (minus His blood) is laughable. Paul describes the kind of body which the Christian will put on in the future that will be just like the Lord Jesus' body as "not made with hands" (2 Cor.5:1). That can only be in reference to the "natural" body opposed to a "spiritual" body in which Christians will be raised up.

Laughable? That clinches it. But, then again, you are always right.

But you say that the Lord Jesus has been raised up in a body made with hands, or the same body of flesh which He possessed when He emerged from Mary's womb.

Never argued that. Too bad you're too ignorant, to understand others' arguments.

You think that the only difference between a natural body and a spiritual body is that the spiritual body is just the natural body with the blood removed!

I've expounded in the past on that subject, but, again, you are always right.

At least you are good for a laugh every now and then!

Took you how long to GOOG that one?

I await your Scriptures which demonstrate that a spiritual body is nothing but a natural body without the blood.

Already expounded on, for years, on TOL. Don't throw a tantrum because you do not pay attention to what others say, believe, because you're always right.


Dig?
He is a man, "flesh and bone," today, in the third heaven. No scripture says that He lost His resurrected, glorified body, on the way to the third heaven:



Philippians 3 KJV
21 Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself.


Acts 7 KJV
56 And said, Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of man standing on the right hand of God. Acts 1 KJV
11 Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.

Job 19 KJV
25 For I know that my redeemer liveth, and that he shall stand at the latter day upon the earth:

26 And though after my skin worms destroy this body, yet in my flesh shall I see God:

Stephen saw Him....Job will see him....same resurrected, glorified "flesh and bone" body, "post resurrection," that Acts 1 KJV verifies-the return...."the second time."




1 Timothy 2:5 KJV

For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Your big scheme of asserting that all biblical words, when employed, mean the same, regardless of the context, is falling apart.

I never said that. Instead of answering in an intelligent manner you accuse me of saying things I never said in the hope that no one will notice that you have no answer to my points.

You idea that the Lord Jesus is now in the eternal kingdom in a flesh and bone body (minus His blood) is laughable. Paul describes the kind of body which the Christian will put on in the future that will be just like the Lord Jesus' body as "not made with hands" (2 Cor.5:1). That can only be in reference to the "natural" body opposed to a "spiritual" body in which Christians will be raised up.

But you say that the Lord Jesus has been raised up in a body made with hands, or the same body of flesh which He possessed when He emerged from Mary's womb.

You think that the only difference between a natural body and a spiritual body is that the spiritual body is just the natural body with the blood removed!

You say that you have already answered that but I searched your comments on this thread and could find nothing where you explained why anyone should believe your ridiculous idea that a spiritual body is a natural body with the blood removed.

The Apostle Paul tells us to compare spiritual things with spiritual but you say that a spiritual body is a body made with hands with the blood removed!

What a joke!

Fun and more fun!

 

[God's Truth]

I never said that. Instead of answering in an intelligent manner you accuse me of saying things I never said in the hope that no one will notice that you have no answer to my points.

You idea that the Lord Jesus is now in the eternal kingdom in a flesh and bone body (minus His blood) is laughable. Paul describes the kind of body which the Christian will put on in the future that will be just like the Lord Jesus' body as "not made with hands" (2 Cor.5:1). That can only be in reference to the "natural" body opposed to a "spiritual" body in which Christians will be raised up.

But you say that the Lord Jesus has been raised up in a body made with hands, or the same body of flesh which He possessed when He emerged from Mary's womb.

You think that the only difference between a natural body and a spiritual body is that the spiritual body is just the natural body with the blood removed!

You say that you have already answered that but I searched your comments on this thread and could find nothing where you explained why anyone should believe your ridiculous idea that a spiritual body is a natural body with the blood removed.

The Apostle Paul tells us to compare spiritual things with spiritual but you say that a spiritual body is a body made with hands with the blood removed!

What a joke!

Fun and more fun!

We will be raised with our flesh bodies, but it will not be the same flesh we have on earth.

It will be a flesh body that does not age and die and decay.

Consider what Job says:

Job 19:26 And after my skin has been destroyed, yet in my flesh I will see God;

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Job 19:26 And after my skin has been destroyed, yet in my flesh I will see God;

Our new, spiritual body will be able to adapt to it's environment. That body will be transformed into an earthly body while on the earth and a spiritual body when in the eternal state.

The body of Job will be the same. He will be raised up in such a body on the last day before the earthly kingdom is ushered in and since he will be on the earth he will indeed have a flesh and blood body. But when the earthly kingdom is delivered to God then his body will be changed into a spiritual body, a body which is for the spiritual sphere.

Perhaps that is typical of bodies which the angels have and that might explain the Lord's words here:

"Jesus answered and said unto them,Ye do err, not knowing the scriptures, nor the power of God.For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven" (Mt.22:29-30).​

 

[Right Divider]

Perhaps that is typical of bodies which the angels have and that might explain the Lord's words here:

"Jesus answered and said unto them,Ye do err, not knowing the scriptures, nor the power of God.For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven" (Mt.22:29-30).​

You continue to take scripture OUT of context.

In WHAT respect are they "like the angels of God in heaven"?

That they do not MARRY.

 

[God's Truth]

Our new, spiritual body will be able to adapt to it's environment. That body will be transformed into an earthly body while on the earth and a spiritual body when in the eternal state.

The body of Job will be the same. He will be raised up in such a body on the last day before the earthly kingdom is ushered in and since he will be on the earth he will indeed have a flesh and blood body. But when the earthly kingdom is delivered to God then his body will be changed into a spiritual body, a body which is for the spiritual sphere.

Perhaps that is typical of bodies which the angels have and that might explain the Lord's words here:

"Jesus answered and said unto them,Ye do err, not knowing the scriptures, nor the power of God.For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven" (Mt.22:29-30).​

I am not sure we understand it the same way.

Just to clarify what I believe from the scriptures:

We have a flesh and blood body and our own spirit within us.

When our flesh body dies, our spirit goes to heaven or to hell.

When we are raised from the dead, we are given new physical bodies that will be spiritual in that they do not die.

I do not believe we will be raised with bodies that have blood.

I believe the bodies we have will look like our flesh bodies but will be nothing like it.

 

[john w]

I never said that.

Yes, you did.

Instead of answering in an intelligent manner you accuse me of saying things I never said in the hope that no one will notice that you have no answer to my points.

And you did not answer my question: Chapter, verse, that requires me to answer any/all questions.



Come on, kid.

You idea that the Lord Jesus is now in the eternal kingdom in a flesh and bone body (minus His blood) is laughable.

Took you how long to GOOD/Bing that?

What a joke!

Fun and more fun!

Another original zinger!

1 Cor. 3 KJV
1 And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ.

2 I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able.


Hebrews 5:12 KJV For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat.

Sorry, kid, for your tantrums. Now, pull up your bunny shirt, and stick with the milk, as you cannot bear the meat, choking on it.


Dig? Good!

 

[Jerry Shugart]

You continue to take scripture OUT of context.

In WHAT respect are they "like the angels of God in heaven"?

That they do not MARRY.

They do not marry because they cannot consummate a marriage because their bodies are not made for bringing forth children. At another place the Lord compares the bodies of angels to the bodies of those who will be resurrected.

Are you one of those who also believe that a spiritual body is just a natural body minus the blood?

Or perhaps you will actually tell us exactly how a spiritual body differs from a natural body.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Took you how long to GOOD/Bing that?

About as long as it took you to decide to ignore the facts!

You said that the Lord Jesus is now in heaven with a flesh and bone body.

Is that your final answer?

Fun and more fun!

Do you still think that a spiritual body is one which is made with hands?

Fun and more fun!

Do you still think that the Father is both spirit and Son?

Fun and more fun! It's so much fun I can barely stand it.

john weenie is making a big fool out of himself big time!

 

[Right Divider]

They do not marry because they cannot consummate a marriage because their bodies are not made for bringing forth children. At another place the Lord compares the bodies of angels to the bodies of those who will be resurrected.

Are you one of those who also believe that a spiritual body is just a natural body minus the blood?

Nope

Or perhaps you will actually tell us exactly how a spiritual body differs from a natural body.

Scripture does not give a lot of details, so you should quit speculating.

 

[john w]

About as long as it took you to decide to ignore the facts!

You said that the Lord Jesus is now in heaven with a flesh and bone body.

Is that your final answer?

Fun and more fun!

Do you still think that a spiritual body is one which is made with hands?

Fun and more fun!

Do you still think that the Father is both spirit and Son?

Fun and more fun! It's so much fun I can barely stand it.

john weenie is making a big fool out of himself big time!

Colossians 1:15 KJV Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:

1 Timothy 1:17 KJV Now unto the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only wise God, be honour and glory for ever and ever. Amen.


So, you think the Lord Jesus Christ is not God, because he was "visible" on earth, as in all the biblical use of words, context is irrelevant?
john weenie? Real tough guy, eh, kid?