Spanking children teaches discipline!

[TweetyBird]

You are asking questions as if Peter was raised by Jesus and not by his parents, when the interactions between Jesus and Peter are not the interactions between a parent and a child.

Jesus is our teacher, our Shepherd and the Bishop of our souls. We are His children.

Peter was raised by someone prior to meeting Jesus.
The people that raised Peter prior to him meeting Jesus did a good job raising him and first century Jewish culture provides clues on how Peter was disciplined as a child.

If the discipline worked so well, then why did Peter sin?

 

[TweetyBird]

From the passage, this is not about parenting, but about protecting society from sociopaths.

Sociopaths come from mental disease, not because one was not spanked.

Deuteronomy 21:21 21 And all the men of his city shall stone him with stones, that he die: so shalt thou put evil away from among you; and all Israel shall hear, and fear.​

If the parent will not discipline the child, then the society is forced to do so and will do it with a lot more force than a spanking.
If the parent is prevented from disciplining the child by people like you, then the society will have many more sociopaths to deal with.

Not true at all. Loving children can be developed from Christian parents who guide their children with love and direction. You seem to think spanking a child is the only way to discipline and teach them right from wrong. It's archaic and lazy and controlling. There is no proof that a spanked child turns out better than an unspanked child.

 

[ok doser]

You seem to think spanking a child is the only way to discipline and teach them right from wrong.

the only way? :freak:


why would you say that?


oh right, you can't tell the difference between a spanking and "beating the crud out of" someone :wave2:

 

[TweetyBird]

Just how much do you imagine that human nature has changed in three thousand years?

We have a renewed mind, are regenerated and born again of Spirit because of Christ. He taught us a new way to live and deal with others. The fruit of the Spirit in all goodness and truth.

 

[annabenedetti]

Some people are sociopaths despite good parenting.
Your style of "parenting" creates sociopaths.
There is a big difference.

I'm quite happy with the results of my parenting.

Yes, a wayward child is not a sociopath and a sociopath is not a wayward child.
Your style of "parenting" creates sociopaths.

No it doesn't. You obviously don't understand what the word means.

There are thousands of years of history that proves there is no problem with people marrying when they are younger than the current arbitrary age of 18.
Your ignorance of the success of historical solutions to common situations is appalling.

What's appalling is the desire of parents to control their daughters to such an extent that they'll marry them off underage so as to prevent them from being autonomous. Handoff from father to husband before they have a chance to even come to full maturity.

 

[genuineoriginal]

Jesus is our teacher, our Shepherd and the Bishop of our souls. We are His children.

Peter was raised by his parents, not by Jesus.
Stop trying to create a red herring.

If the discipline worked so well, then why did Peter sin?

Can you provide any verses that show Peter's sins?
If so, please provide the Old Testament verses about those sins so we can see which ones God proscribed with the death penalty.

Or you can just accept the truth in this verse:

Proverbs 22:6 6 Train up a child in the way he should go: and when he is old, he will not depart from it.​

 

[ok doser]

We have a renewed mind, are regenerated and born again of Spirit because of Christ. He taught us a new way to live and deal with others. The fruit of the Spirit in all goodness and truth.

Matthew 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

 

[TweetyBird]

the only way? :freak:


why would you say that?


oh right, you can't tell the difference between a spanking and "beating the crud out of" someone :wave2:

Rationalizing spanking by comparing it to something worse is not an argument. For the child who gets the "crud beat of them" as a normal discipline is not going to have a different reaction than the child who gets spanked and thinks that is normal discipline.

 

[Crucible]

Delinquents in residential facilities and juvy are not there because of a lack of discipline. It is because of the lack of love, nurture, care, attention, and loving guidance by parents. Beating the crud out of a teenager is not going to change their attitude. It's going to make them hate you to the core of their being.

Meh.

I spent most of my juvenile life either locked up or in group homes, and there's never anything simple in any case. But to generalize it down to "they didn't get the 'love, nuture, care, etc." is preposterous.

Your notion may work in a more upper class society where children are routinely spoiled and don't need such a firm hand insofar as deterring delinquency, but nobody in a group home comes from such a place. And that's no doubt where you are coming from, because most other people would say you are naive as a newborn fairy in Neverland.

 

[ok doser]

I'm quite happy with the results of my parenting.



No it doesn't. You obviously don't understand what the word means.



What's appalling is the desire of parents to control their daughters to such an extent that they'll marry them off underage so as to prevent them from being autonomous. Handoff from father to husband before they have a chance to even come to full maturity.

"autonomous" daughters:

daughters "handed off" from loving father to loving husband:

 

[TweetyBird]

Peter was raised by his parents, not by Jesus.
Stop trying to create a red herring.

Jesus was His teacher when Peter betrayed Him.


[quote[Can you provide any verses that show Peter's sins?[/quote]

Yes, he betrayed Christ and he also ate with Gentiles and then tried to force them to become Jews. He was reprimanded by Paul, not was not spanked or beaten.

When Peter sinned by denying Jesus, Jesus looked at him and he wept. Jesus did not spank him or otherwise discipline him. What that has to do with whether or not Pete's parents spanked him makes no sense. If Peter's parents spanked him to teach him right from wrong, then why did he sin so gregariously? Just what was the purpose of all those supposed spankings .. I wonder.

If so, please provide the Old Testament verses about those sins so we can see which ones God proscribed with the death penalty.

Or you can just accept the truth in this verse:

Proverbs 22:6 6 Train up a child in the way he should go: and when he is old, he will not depart from it.​

I don't see anything there about spanking. Training is loving, nurturing guidance - teaching right from wrong like we read in the NT.

 

[TweetyBird]

Matthew 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

The Law was fulfilled, completely and totally satisfied in the blood of Christ. Lots of jots and tittles got changed and removed and that caused the whole thing to wax old and vanish away.

 

[Crucible]

The Law was fulfilled, completely and totally satisfied in the blood of Christ. Lots of jots and tittles got changed and removed and that caused the whole thing to wax old and vanish away.

Psalms and Proverbs are not the 'Old Law', they are words of Godly wisdom. The fact that you don't arrive at such conclusions means you're mistaking your conclusions as being Godly

 

[genuineoriginal]

Sociopaths come from mental disease, not because one was not spanked.

You falsely believe that all sociopaths fall under the first definition of disease, when many of them fall under the second definition.

disease
: an illness that affects a person, animal, or plant : a condition that prevents the body or mind from working normally
: a problem that a person, group, organization, or society has and cannot stop​

Loving children can be developed from Christian parents who guide their children with love and direction.

Yes, and that love and direction will often include loving them enough to spank them to help them learn right from wrong.

You seem to think spanking a child is the only way to discipline and teach them right from wrong.

It is not the only way, it is one of many tools a parent has.
Refusing to use spanking as a tool to help teach children right from wrong has serious consequences for the child.

Proverbs 22:15 15Foolishness is bound in the heart of a child; but the rod of correction shall drive it far from him.​

It's archaic and lazy and controlling.

Human nature has not changed enough in the past 3,000 years to dismiss spanking as archaic.
Refusing to spank is lazy.
Trying to guide a child without any control is foolishness.

There is no proof that a spanked child turns out better than an unspanked child.

If you are speaking about a single child, then you are correct, since that single child cannot be both spanked and unspanked.
However, history shows that societies that spank turn out a greater percentage of better children than societies that do not spank.

 

[TweetyBird]

Meh.

I spent most of my juvenile life either locked up or in group homes, and there's never anything simple in any case. But to generalize it down to "they didn't get the 'love, nuture, care, etc." is preposterous.

You, of all people, should know that the lack of a functional family where kids just do what they please and get into trouble are the products of a society where children are non entities and ignored. Of course most of them are going to turn out troubled and chaotic. It is not because they were not spanked.Most of them were probably beat and otherwise abused. That causes anger and violence. DUH.

Your notion may work in a more upper class society where children are routinely spoiled and don't need such a firm hand insofar as deterring delinquency, but nobody in a group home comes from such a place. And that's no doubt where you are coming from, because most other people would say you are naive as a newborn fairy in Neverland.

If children are loved and nurtured in a home where the parents love the Lord and work hard to teach their children right from wrong, then there is no need for physical retribution. You are comparing godless families and children that come from dysfunctional families, or drugs or alcohol or neglect and abuse. I am also not talking about spoiled rich kids who are paid off by what parents can give them, but parents who discipline lovingly without violence and live and serve the Lord with all their hearts. The rest of the world will reap what they sow. But we are not discussing them but what is supposed to happen in families that support each other with the Love of God. It does not take spankings to train a child to be responsible and to make good choices about their behavior and learn right from wrong.

 

[genuineoriginal]

What's appalling is the desire of parents to control their daughters to such an extent that they'll marry them off underage so as to prevent them from being autonomous. Handoff from father to husband before they have a chance to even come to full maturity.

You really seem to be going off the deep end.

 

[ok doser]

You really seem to be going off the deep end.

she's been like that a lot lately


i think the cognitive dissonance of a likely President Trump has made her come unglued

 

[TweetyBird]

Psalms and Proverbs are not the 'Old Law', they are words of Godly wisdom. The fact that you don't arrive at such conclusions means you're mistaking your conclusions as being Godly

Are you suggesting that God commands parents to beat their children with a rod?

 

[genuineoriginal]

Can you provide any verses that show Peter's sins?

Yes, he betrayed Christ and he also ate with Gentiles and then tried to force them to become Jews. He was reprimanded by Paul, not was not spanked or beaten.

You haven't provided any verses.
You also haven't shown where anything Peter did violated any of the law written in the five books of Moses.

If Peter's parents spanked him to teach him right from wrong, then why did he sin so gregariously? Just what was the purpose of all those supposed spankings .. I wonder.

Here is one example that shows Peter followed the commandments from the Torah:

Acts 11:4-8 4 But Peter rehearsed the matter from the beginning, and expounded it by order unto them, saying, 5 I was in the city of Joppa praying: and in a trance I saw a vision, A certain vessel descend, as it had been a great sheet, let down from heaven by four corners; and it came even to me: 6 Upon the which when I had fastened mine eyes, I considered, and saw fourfooted beasts of the earth, and wild beasts, and creeping things, and fowls of the air. 7 And I heard a voice saying unto me, Arise, Peter; slay and eat. 8 But I said, Not so, Lord: for nothing common or unclean hath at any time entered into my mouth.​

 

[TweetyBird]

You falsely believe that all sociopaths fall under the first definition of disease, when many of them fall under the second definition.

disease
: an illness that affects a person, animal, or plant : a condition that prevents the body or mind from working normally
: a problem that a person, group, organization, or society has and cannot stop​

Pretty much, yeah, I believe that mental illness is a disease of the mind. It's a chemical imbalance caused by trauma, drugs, fetal effects from what mommy dearest was inhaling, shooting up or drinking. MRI's can pick out where a child's brain is scrambled. I know, because I live with one [not mine]. So you have kids born with trouble programed into their systems. Then add a dysfunctional family, no values, no nurture and training and you get a mess.

Yes, and that love and direction will often include loving them enough to spank them to help them learn right from wrong.

I did not disagree with that discipline is used to correct. My disagreement is the choice of one's action to get the desired result.

It is not the only way, it is one of many tools a parent has.
Refusing to use spanking as a tool to help teach children right from wrong has serious consequences for the child.

Proverbs 22:15 15Foolishness is bound in the heart of a child; but the rod of correction shall drive it far from him.​

Are you advocating beating children with rods?

Human nature has not changed enough in the past 3,000 years to dismiss spanking as archaic.
Refusing to spank is lazy.
Trying to guide a child without any control is foolishness.

That is the lie parents believe for sure, and it's perpetuated enough. I think spanking is lazy. It takes more effort to train a child without spankings and with more creativity and different approach.

If you are speaking about a single child, then you are correct, since that single child cannot be both spanked and unspanked.
However, history shows that societies that spank turn out a greater percentage of better children than societies that do not spank.

Just where are those "historical documents"?