Spanking children teaches discipline!

[TweetyBird]

And now you are taking a fairly rare, specific thing and simply attributing it to something else.

Ultimately, your argument is being falsely persuasive in trying to abused children and non-abused children synonymous in a setting where physical discipline goes.

You're going to sit there and talk about God, but Godly wisdom is not sparing the rod. But pick and choose what to believe in the Bible like so many of you do- it's because of the lack of discipline that there are so many delinquents today.
That is, your notion has been proven ineffective in many circumstances.

Anyone who beats a child with a rod is an abuser. But then, that is how false parenting goes wonky and cults of abuse like Michael Pearl and his followers [eg: the Duggers] get sucked into it.

I am not against discipline. I am against the physical means by which parents think they are training a child. Patience and perseverance and guidance are a lot more effective than teaching a child that hitting another human being is righteous.

Perhaps, the verse "spare the rod and spoil the child" means something not quite so literal.

 

[ok doser]

Perhaps, the verse "spare the rod and spoil the child" means something not quite so literal.

perhaps you can say the same thing about other parts of the gospel that you don't like :idunno:

 

[genuineoriginal]

Anyone who beats a child with a rod is an abuser. But then, that is how false parenting goes wonky and cults of abuse like Michael Pearl and his followers [eg: the Duggers] get sucked into it.

I am not against discipline. I am against the physical means by which parents think they are training a child. Patience and perseverance and guidance are a lot more effective than teaching a child that hitting another human being is righteous.

Perhaps, the verse "spare the rod and spoil the child" means something not quite so literal.

Using the rod is better than the alternative:

Deuteronomy 21:18-21 18 If a man have a stubborn and rebellious son, which will not obey the voice of his father, or the voice of his mother, and that, when they have chastened him, will not hearken unto them: 19 Then shall his father and his mother lay hold on him, and bring him out unto the elders of his city, and unto the gate of his place; 20 And they shall say unto the elders of his city, This our son is stubborn and rebellious, he will not obey our voice; he is a glutton, and a drunkard. 21 And all the men of his city shall stone him with stones, that he die: so shalt thou put evil away from among you; and all Israel shall hear, and fear.​

 

[PureX]

Logically speaking, rewarding determined achievement is what teaches children discipline. While 'spanking' them only teaches them the consequence of violent retribution. But conservatives LOVE the concept of violent retribution to the point of it being an obsession. So they will never be convinced that it's not the 'go-to' solution to all problems involving human interaction.

 

[ok doser]

Logically speaking, rewarding determined achievement is what teaches children discipline.

yes, it can

While 'spanking' them only teaches them the consequence of violent retribution.

well, no

it teaches them the consequence of unacceptable behavior

But conservatives LOVE the idea of violent retribution to the point of it being an obsession.

kinda like your obsession with making blanket statements about groups you dislike? :chuckle:

 

[annabenedetti]

Using the rod is better than the alternative:

Right. Because the ultimate way to parent is to stone your kid to death.

 

[TweetyBird]

Are you claiming that Peter was never spanked by his parents prior to meeting Jesus?

Jesus did not spank Peter or take a rod to him. Jesus looked at Peter and Peter wept.

Maybe you should educate yourself about whether corporal punishment was part of Jewish culture in the first century.
Jewish Encyclopedia: CORPORAL PUNISHMENT

Did Jesus use corporal punishment on Peter? Why should first century Jewish culture have anything at all to do with how to discipline a child?

 

[TweetyBird]

Using the rod is better than the alternative:

Deuteronomy 21:18-21 18 If a man have a stubborn and rebellious son, which will not obey the voice of his father, or the voice of his mother, and that, when they have chastened him, will not hearken unto them: 19 Then shall his father and his mother lay hold on him, and bring him out unto the elders of his city, and unto the gate of his place; 20 And they shall say unto the elders of his city, This our son is stubborn and rebellious, he will not obey our voice; he is a glutton, and a drunkard. 21 And all the men of his city shall stone him with stones, that he die: so shalt thou put evil away from among you; and all Israel shall hear, and fear.​

Please do tell how you get spanking a child to supposedly train them out of that passage?

 

[TweetyBird]

well, no

it teaches them the consequence of unacceptable behavior

It teaches them to fear their parents and that it is acceptable to hit others. I especially love it when a parent spanks a child for hitting another child. It's like :doh::dunce:

 

[ok doser]

It teaches them to fear their parents...

when they have misbehaved


you understand that part, right?

and that it is acceptable to hit others.

if you're a parent with a child who has misbehaved

 

[musterion]

No, I was not going to make it about you.

Yes you were, I saw it. It's ok.

 

[Crucible]

Anyone who beats a child with a rod is an abuser.

:doh:

Back in biblical times, it was probably common to have some sort of rod-like swatter to discipline children. It's not meant to be entirely literal.

But if you think physical discipline in any sense is 'abuse', then you are partly responsible for the problem with children today. You sit there and talk about those children in group homes who have been abused, but you don't acknowledge the delinquents in those group homes who were not disciplined correctly either.

You think you are part of a solution but you are really perpetuating a problem_

 

[ok doser]

in singapore, they use the cane on miscreants


it's believed to be quite effective :idunno:

 

[TweetyBird]

when they have misbehaved


you understand that part, right?

No, I do not. Honor and respect for parents does not happen when your butt is getting blistered.

if you're a parent with a child who has misbehaved

It teaches the child to haul off and sock another child because they don't like what the other kid is doing. That is the teaching behind getting spanked from a child's perspective.

I got spanked as a child. Not often, it was threatened more than it was applied. Yet to this day, and I am 67, when I think back on it, I can still remember how afraid I was of my mother and have absolutely no memory of why she spanked me. Fear and terror was why I was "good". That is not how it is supposed to be. Parents are supposed to represent the Lord. That does not speak well on His behalf if they are going around hitting their kids. Just sayin' :wave:

 

[TweetyBird]

in singapore, they use the cane on miscreants


it's believed to be quite effective :idunno:

Power over someone else will get them to comply so that society can revel in peace. But we are not talking about Singapore. As Christians, on display for the whole world, there needs to be a better way.

 

[ok doser]

Power over someone else will get them to comply so that society can revel in peace. But we are not talking about Singapore. As Christians, on display for the whole world, there needs to be a better way.

a better way than that which God has given us?

 

[ok doser]

No, I do not. Honor and respect for parents does not happen when your butt is getting blistered.

a desire to avoid further punishment is an effective way to change undesirable behaviors

It teaches the child to haul off and sock another child because they don't like what the other kid is doing.

not if it's done right, explaining to the child what he has done wrong and why he is being punished

 

[TweetyBird]

:doh:

Back in biblical times, it was probably common to have some sort of rod-like swatter to discipline children. It's not meant to be entirely literal.

Are you saying that we need to keep the program going from several thousand years ago? Are you saying that as Spirit led Christians we can't come up with a different plan?

But if you think physical discipline in any sense is 'abuse', then you are partly responsible for the problem with children today. You sit there and talk about those children in group homes who have been abused, but you don't acknowledge the delinquents in those group homes who were not disciplined correctly either.

You think you are part of a solution but you are really perpetuating a problem_

Delinquents in residential facilities and juvy are not there because of a lack of discipline. It is because of the lack of love, nurture, care, attention, and loving guidance by parents. Beating the crud out of a teenager is not going to change their attitude. It's going to make them hate you to the core of their being.

 

[ok doser]

Beating the crud out of teenager is not going to change their attitude.

spanking =/= "beating the crud out of" :nono:

 

[TweetyBird]

a desire to avoid further punishment is an effective way to change undesirable behaviors

Oh - I thought parenting was supposed to train a child to learn how to act responsively because they loved their parents and were taught right from wrong in a positive learning environment. Bad me for thinking that smacking a kid was "positive reinforcement".

not if it's done right, explaining to the child what he has done wrong and why he is being punished

Just keep telling yourself that. Johnny, you should not be doing that. Now here's something to hurt you so you don't forget. Think like a child, not like an adult. You need to lower yourself to them, not make them think like an adult. scheesh.