Ben Masada
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Not into evolution of the mind of man I assure you.
When Did the Disciples of Jesus Stop Observing the Old Testament Laws?
- Thread starter clefty
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Not into evolution of the mind of man I assure you.
Ben Masada
New member
Old Testament Jews and Christians alike live almost exclusively in the dim and distant past. They talk constantly about an exaggerated age of bizarre, miraculous events. But then there is reality. Today, in literalville, there is a Mosque built on top of the Temple Mount, it's been there since 691. And but for a brief occupation by crusaders, it's been a Muslim holy site for over 1300 years!
Well my friend, the Creator of the universe has been the same since He caused the universe to exist. We are the ones who are expected to evolve.
Evolve? Or die to self and grow in Him?
The word "Evolve" reminds me of evolution and the secular humanist notion of "might is right" then it's off on crusade or jihad or tikkun olan...all those that insist they are helping Him...
As if He needs human hands to build His home again...
but prophecy shows these arrogant and power hungry men will indeed continue to evolve...thinking Right needs might
and kill those like Stephen (and the other apostles) in defense of their grand temple...
As far as Judausm is concerned, the movie isn't living up to the book.
Ha...Despite Hollywood?
As per usual, the book isn't really followed but its ending will need more than massive CGI.
And it can't be altered by those who say they are, and are not, but liars...
They followed the book when they rejected Jesus. Jesus wasn't the problem, their man made book with it's spectacular history revisionism was the problem.
In that study in the opening peice (did ya read it yet?) we see it was false witnesses who wished to slander the apostles with false claims that they taught the Law was changed, even ended.
Perhaps it's not the book itself but the spectacular revisionism of history is in the teaching and interpretations of it by others who would wish to deceive...
Had you been a Jew during the times of Jesus you would have rejected him as well unless his loving truth could have penetrated your dogma.
And as the opening peice shows accepting Him didn't change the calendar or worship form or function or the Laws you wished to keep.
You would wish to live and do things as He did because you love Him.
Sure it did, but just because the cage door is open doesn't mean the former captives feel comfortable just leaving.
Revealed religion occurs, such as the religion of Jesus, but the new converts to such invariably contaminate the new by their old forms and theories; thus Christianity became a religion about Jesus.
gentiles - they need to follow the "LAW BY HEART" to act. Thus they have to act with conscience and moral code, even in the case of under the New Covenant. They are however expected to fail at some point for God's Grace to apply to save them. As the New Covenant by no means says that you can sin at will. You won't be judged by the measurement of Law though.
Similarly, the Jews need to observe Mosaic Law to the best of knowledge except for the part no longer necessary after the coming of Jesus, such as those laws of sacrifices. They still need to observe whatever characterized them as the JEWS.
They however have the advantage of choosing not to be a Jew. That is, if they choose not to observe the Mosaic Law, they are then actually the gentiles governed by conscience and moral code to act. God's Grace will pick up from where they failed the Mosaic Law if they choose to observe so, or where they failed as gentiles do if they choose not to observe.
Christians don't observe OT Laws (Mosaic Law) since the time when there are no longer Jews inside our churches. Conflicts occurred during the time when both Jewish and gentile Christians co-existed as the Jews demanded that the gentile Christians need to follow their laws to act. The apostles such as Paul and Peter had fought back to clarify this many times.
This is more about the scope of coverage of the old and new covenants. That is, how various covenants work for what scope (Jews or gentiles) of humans.
Similarly, the Jews need to observe Mosaic Law to the best of knowledge except for the part no longer necessary after the coming of Jesus, such as those laws of sacrifices. They still need to observe whatever characterized them as the JEWS.
They however have the advantage of choosing not to be a Jew. That is, if they choose not to observe the Mosaic Law, they are then actually the gentiles governed by conscience and moral code to act. God's Grace will pick up from where they failed the Mosaic Law if they choose to observe so, or where they failed as gentiles do if they choose not to observe.
Christians don't observe OT Laws (Mosaic Law) since the time when there are no longer Jews inside our churches. Conflicts occurred during the time when both Jewish and gentile Christians co-existed as the Jews demanded that the gentile Christians need to follow their laws to act. The apostles such as Paul and Peter had fought back to clarify this many times.
This is more about the scope of coverage of the old and new covenants. That is, how various covenants work for what scope (Jews or gentiles) of humans.
God's Truth
New member
What a mess.
No. It's clarity if you are willing to read carefully.
This is more about the scope of coverage of the old and new covenants. That is, how various covenants work for what scope (Jews or gentiles) of humans.
God's Truth
New member
There is no more Jew and Gentile, only saved believers in Christ and the condemned.
You said, "Similarly, the Jews need to observe Mosaic Law to the best of knowledge except for the part no longer necessary after the coming of Jesus, such as those laws of sacrifices. They still need to observe whatever characterized them as the JEWS."
There is no more old law. There is no way anyone can obey the old law anymore. There is no more earthly temple, no more earthly priest, no animal sacrifices that God would accept. Circumcision is mutilation of the flesh. The observance of special days is worthless.
That it is about Him is neither His or the OT's fault.
If there are those who idolize Him they will counterfeit His message.
He came to reveal the Father and His Father's will which well is obedience....and to the Law in the OT. He came because His Fathers Law condemns us and now finally we have His mercy to pass over us...
Not everybody chaffs at the yoke. Most of us "love Thy Law" and realize we can't keep it but it does keep us. Sure, we are domesticated but cared for.
My life is much better because I remember His calendar and don't kill, steal, sleep around, lie etc...
And certainly because of my Sabbath rest which not even the boss man can take.
No cage here...
Well put! I like your way of thinking. We aren't far apart, we just differ on the OT being written by God.
The law served a purpose but now God writes his laws upon our hearts. He is a Living God.
Sadly that puts us far apart.
My God doesn't lie when He said ithe Law is His He made it.
...and my God created the means to salvation as even His Son depended on His Father's Law to affirm and vindicate Him and His mission.
Your God apparently needs man to help to create a system by which he is restored to Him.
The Law is the same and was always in the heart to all who believe.
Ok, that's fine.
In my understanding of God he is changeless, he is consistent and he is a unified personality. He is loving and forgiving, he has always been forgiving. His way is to forgive, mans way is to create a theoretical way because temporal man finds it difficult to simply forgive without anything in return. It was man who created sacrifices for the "feeling" of forgiveness. Hence, after pigheaded religion killed the Son, the best man could come up with is that we sacrificed Gods Son back to him, therefore we are theoretically forgiven.
The salvation of the original gospel was real, personal transformation of the heart rather than a theoretical substitute of someone else.
So you don't even listen to what Jesus said,
Matthew 19:17-21 (NIV)
“Why do you ask me about what is good?” Jesus replied. “There is only One who is good. If you want to enter life, keep the commandments.”
“Which ones?” he inquired. Jesus replied, “ ‘You shall not murder, you shall not commit adultery, you shall not steal, you shall not give false testimony,
honor your father and mother,’ and ‘love your neighbor as yourself.’”
“All these I have kept,” the young man said. “What do I still lack?”
Jesus answered, “If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me.”
Jesus was talking to a Jew. You on the other hand as a gentile, won't be able to ENTER LIFE by observing commandments Jesus mentioned!
As a gentile, tell us do you still follow your self-conscience or moral code given to act? That's the set of Law given to gentiles.
Because man needed something doesn't mean he came up with it.
Israel clammered and complained and demanded a king like the other nations and well Yah allowed it but appointed one.
See? Israel didn't give themselves their own King...
Noah was instructed by Yah to build the ark.
Why else would he?