No worries buddy! And thank you for a humerous teaching moment that humans are not considered food though made of flesh. It is laughable to think He made all meat food.
Or offered Himself as a Sunday brunch...
Happy sabbath!
When Did the Disciples of Jesus Stop Observing the Old Testament Laws?
- Thread starter clefty
- Start date
No worries buddy! And thank you for a humerous teaching moment that humans are not considered food though made of flesh. It is laughable to think He made all meat food.
Or offered Himself as a Sunday brunch...
Happy sabbath!
I'm not getting the criptic talk, can you be more clear about your point?
LoL doubt it but will try...
Your statement that man makes laws and values is not entirely wrong.
But if/because they are not given by Yah Himself those man made traditions are idolatrous.
Loosening and binding are forgiving and sealing souls to the kingdom.
You seem to think that permission was given to the apostle's to make changes to teaching and dogma (keys) and heaven (where the locks are) will ok it.
But if you alter a key it won't work in its intended lock.
The disciples were persecuted even killed for their obedience. Had they believed they could compromise and make changes they would of, as it was ok to do so. But they didn't. They understood His Law was immutable thus kept the festivals and even dietary restrictions.
The current Church began to change long after those obedient perished. So you are correct that man does make his own law. But it is counterfeit from the original.
Were we able to change times and laws here on earth we would not have been taught to pray on earth as it is in heaven. We follow heaven not it us.
There are those however who feel they can change times and laws. They are anti Christ.
The opening piece (hope you enjoyed) confirms that the early church did NOT teach or practice a change in time and law as man can not pay his own penalty for breaking Yah's law.
Ok, that's more clear. I was just confused about the commandments which Moses expanded from 7 to 10, or the Leviticus laws which did not come form God but from man. When the story was retold it was written as if God set up everything. Man is given autonomy. Man establishes customs which become traditions and in later generations thet become sacred. The writings about those sacred customs, handed down through the generations become the scripture of holy men and eventually "The Word of God". Paul's simple letters of corospondance went through that process of Bibliolatry.
Before the rejection and tragic cross, Jesus taught the original gospel of the Kingdom of Heaven. Salvation by the faith based realization that all men and women are the sons and daughters of God. God forgives the sincere who repent and in turn forgive others. Had the Jews received Jesus and his original gospel they would be preaching the gospel of the Son of God today from Jerusalem. But we know what happened, so the gospel went west to the Pagan world who made it their own.
There was the religion of Jesus, Christianity became a religion about Jesus, modified by mans limitations and sacrifice minded preconceptions.
Could you now be less cryptic and make this more clear please?
so where does the line for you divide between His and man's? As ALL of it is written by human hands.
Hope you can clarify this.
yes they did reject it but why? Are you implying their rejection was for its "man made" sacrificial system? Or because this original gospel you speak of is more "rather mercy than sacrifice" and would eliminate its "man made" sacrificial system?
initially yes as the opening article you seem to avoid proves Gentiles responded to the accepted gospel of Yahushua as not all rejected it. But subsequent changes were made by wolves and snakes as warned and thus another gospel was progressively developed and taught. This counterfeit gospel was actually made for pagan Europe by rejecting most of the Torah its Levitical laws being too OT and well, too jooish.
oh never mind you see something there too so please clarify...
Especially about the Moses making it 7 to 10 part...oh, and the Levitical laws are made by man because I am constantly told the Sabbath is jooish and such nonsense.
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They rejected Jesus because their Father was the devil and the darkness hates the light. The truth of Jesus' gospel by default discredited their self righteous system of traditional barrenness, the chosen people arrogance, the profitable religious system which held the common man in bondage. The truth that God is not simply the national God of the Israelites, depicted in the highly exaggerated history revisionism known as the Torah, rather God is the creator and spiritual Father of each individual on earth, this was very offensive to the self important. So it was taken away from them, their house left desolate, leaving the false prophets to their stubborn demise.
It's hard to believe I know, but there was religion before Moses, before the complete recasting of Hebrew history in Babylonn.
Not hard at all. But there remains Yah and He made us and not we Him. His are the Laws that keep and protect us and His also the method and form by which we are restored to Him despite any counterfeit we may produce.
And I regret you avoid so much...
Sure he is. God made no covenant with the nations other than through Abraham.
Matthew 22:32 I am the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob...
Israel wasn't a nation when God made his agreement with Abraham. Subsequently, after the so called Israelites were taken captive in Babylon, they rewrote their history, converting an ordinary secular history into a miraculous fiction. That's when their nationalist pride produced the chosen people arrogance which is reflected in Judao-Christian theology. They developed erroneous ideas about the coming Son, a Jewish Messiah. Those ideas were a stumbling block when the Son of God came in the flesh.
Judaism and Paganism contaminated Christian theology leading to the sect divided, dying Christian religion of today.
Yahweh was the nature God of the Siani volcano, one of thousands of such Gods of the desert tribes.It was after the Exodus that Moseses nomads settled on the name for their God.
Don't ask questions if you are unwilling to accept the answer.
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Maybe it was a good guess on Christ's part.
Mt. Horeb is not a volcano.
Ummm...I was asking questions because I was, and am, willing to get answers. Accept? well, do tell more...
But thanks for finally answering...kinda...
Just like I am also waiting for more from those that claim Jesus and His gospel was a fictional character created by Romans so clever as to pacify militant joos and seduce reluctant pagans.
Ben Masada
New member
Indeed, that's funny!
Caino did say "God was not simply the national God of the Israelites..."
Which is true...He is more...
Paul preached the same on Mars hill that all nations were made by Him...in order to seek Him.
But some claim Paul a spy traitor infiltrator...
I never said any such thing. Jesus was the Son of God, he incarnate amount the Jews. The Jews didn't like his religion so they put him through a fake trial and convinced Pilate to kill him. But Jesus resurrected himself as promised. The Jews don't like the resurrected Jesus either, so they are still waiting for their idea of a Messiah.
Ben Masada
New member
Believe it or not but I have not found a single true statement in this post above. It is simply amazing!
It's not that it's not true, you just don't believe.
The world has moved on,
You are very misinformed about Paul, clefty
Old Testament Jews and Christians alike live almost exclusively in the dim and distant past. They talk constantly about an exaggerated age of bizarre, miraculous events. But then there is reality. Today, in literalville, there is a Mosque built on top of the Temple Mount, it's been there since 691. And but for a brief occupation by crusaders, it's been a Muslim holy site for over 1300 years!
