When Did the Disciples of Jesus Stop Observing the Old Testament Laws?

[God's Truth]

When you have both interest and time...

http://www.eliyah.com/galatianskjv.html

If you would like to debate about Galatians, I would love to do that.

I am not going to that site to debate the writer of that article.

Please debate your beliefs with me here.

 

[God's Truth]

you keep saying it but have yet to show were it was said...

Jesus says plainly that he is the rest.

Matthew 11:28 "Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest.

Isaiah 28:12
He who said to them, "Here is rest, give rest to the weary," And, "Here is repose," but they would not listen.

You can be rebuked with only one scripture, but I gave you two. No scripture can be put aside.

especially since I didn't say that I said obey Him...as He did...if you love Me do what? Eat Sunday Ham? No! you keep His commandments you establish them...rest one day in seven on the seventh...

Jesus doesn't tell anyone to observe special days. Jesus did tell his disciples to do what the Pharisees said to do, because the Pharisees enforced the old law and the regulations for the temple, and they REJECTED CHRIST. The Pharisees enforced the old law by putting Jews in prison for believing and obeying Christ. Jesus wanted his disciples to do what the Pharisees said to do...and Jesus also said the temple would be destroyed. Now no one can do what the Pharisees said to do.

You equate Him with rest itself. You just rest...no job...no work...no activities...no expenditure of energy? Get nothing done...why the slothful are nearly divine...

All day every day I observe Jesus. All day every day I do what God says to do.

You actually have to do something to rest from doing it...but your abstraction of Jesus is rest equates Him to doing nothing...

That is right that not every one obeyed the works of the old law...however, that is why people were enemies of God. Now no one has to do the purification/ceremonial works to be near God because Jesus does the purification for all.

Sure points out where that man is...IS as in present tense...and as long as there is Light, there will be shadows to point to it...Sabbath is one...not was one...

No.

When there is light behind the man...there is a shadow before him...but when the light comes there are no shadows.

 

[God's Truth]

no reading that the there still remains a Jesus rest for the people of Yah would prove your point...or reading that there still remains rest in Jesus would prove your point but I read there remains a SAbbath rest...actually a Sabbath keeping for the people of Yah...



sooo true...but that's what they do...lol

A day is a measurement of time, and there is a time frame that He set apart blessed sanctified and made holy...and asked us to Remember it to keep it that way. During that time there is rest...a state of being...being at rest...as He was...it is an invitation to be in a state like He is Holy and at rest...but for us it ends as well we are mortals...so there is rest but it ends...and just like in the garden it ended too

yup.. halleluYah...it sure is...and points out the Light...but worship of the sun gets much too hot...I prefer the shade

as is His law...and for me a path and surety for my way...

Jesus is the light. There are no shadows in light.

 

[clefty]

There is only one law for Jews and Gentiles.

Yup... and of those...only one actually includes the gentile...ironic no?

Ex20:10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the Lord thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy STRANGER that is within thy gates:

11 For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it."



I used the big letters and bolded them so you can clearly see how if ANYONE were with Israel and well, where Yah Himself was...the Sabbath was for you...

It is still like that...

You with Israel?

With Yah?

 

[clefty]

The written Word of God says the old law was about food and drink. The kingdom of God is not about that.

Tell that to Adam and Eve who should have followed Paul's immediate advice to follow the Holy Spirit in peace and joy and NOT cause another to stumble...and fall...you know...disobey the Law.

"Romans 14:17 For the kingdom of God is not a matter of eating and drinking, but of righteousness, peace and joy in the Holy Spirit,"

Or does "in the Holy Spirit" include Sunday Ham? I rather think the Holy Spirit causes one to fully appreciate what is forbidden...clean and unclean...

Hebrews 9:10 They are only a matter of food and drink and various ceremonial washings--external regulations applying until the time of the new order.

Yes, the new order has no external regulations what so ever...lol

 

[clefty]

The observance of special days is worthless that is what the written Word of God says.

You keep saying...show me where Scripture does...

Do you believe that Paul spoke the truth for all?

spoke? Absolutely. And he lived according to his speech. Keeping Sabbaths, and His calendar of feast days, kosher...or else how could he argue:

"They presented false witnesseswho said, "This man never stops speaking against this holy place and against the Law.

Yet my accusers did not find me debating with anyone in the temple or riling up a crowd in the synagogues or in the city.

I do confess to you, however, that I worship the God of our fathers according to the Way, which they call a sect. I believe everything that is laid down by the Law and written in the Prophets,

After three days, he called together the leaders of the Jews. When they had gathered, he said to them, "Brothers, although I have done nothing against our people or the customs of our fathers,

Then Paul made his defense: "I have done nothing wrong against the Jewish law or against the temple or against Caesar.""

See? He kept on keeping on...the interesting thing about that last one is he includes that he did nothing to annoy Caesar...now imagine if Paul was getting the Romans to worship another god on Caeser's day...Sunday was his day to be celebrated and worshipped...imagine him hearing about Paul stirring up the people to worship another God on his day...a non Roman god...a Man (of the hated joos even) Rome had already dispatched of...

You really need to think this out my friend...and read the study of the book of Acts this thread opens with...

I am getting the idea about you that you are a Paul hater.

Forget about my posting then...Twisting and distorting scripture as you do is a much bigger issue...

 

[clefty]

If you would like to debate about Galatians, I would love to do that.

I am not going to that site to debate the writer of that article.

Please debate your beliefs with me here.

Didn't recommend that site for you to debate that author silly...

I recommended you a site with an alternative view more inclined to mine so as you know where I am coming from...kinda of a cheat sheet glimpse at my notes or a "here it comes" warning before your argument gets knocked out...

But from seeing you stumble over the book of Acts I think Galatians can wait...you already have shown you make Paul and others...oh and Another...all liars and hypocrites...

 

[clefty]

Jesus says plainly that he is the rest.

Matthew 11:28 "Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest. for I am the rest.

There...fixed it for you so that you aren't lying...there is a world of difference between the two...literally...this world and the world to come

Isaiah 28:12
He who said to them, "Here is rest, give rest to the weary," And, "Here is repose," but they would not listen.

ummm...a person is not being offered here...it is knowledge...a message...line upon line...

If it was intended to be Him then "rest" would be written with a big R...like seed was written Seed because it was in reference to Him

You can be rebuked with only one scripture, but I gave you two. No scripture can be put aside.

Yup scripture will not be thrown out...as for you you're at strike two...lol

Jesus doesn't tell anyone to observe special days.

sure He did...when the end comes and the fleeing to the mountain begins, He singled out Sabbath...and to pray for for it to be kept and not desecrated with running far away and carrying things babies and children and getting all sweaty flustered and annoyed...that certainly is not rest...and certainly not what He had in mind for observing a special day...

He also said to do as He did...which was obey His Father's will...if you love Him

So...what did He do? Kept the Sabbath...Pharisees claimed He didn't...hmmmm are you a Pharisee?

Jesus did tell his disciples to do what the Pharisees said to do, because the Pharisees enforced the old law and the regulations for the temple,

He also told the rich young ruler who asked what he must do to be saved to "keep the commandments"...

they REJECTED CHRIST.

but not because He said "Eat Sunday ham!"

The Pharisees enforced the old law by putting Jews in prison for believing and obeying Christ.

yes because Pharisees thought as you did...that the new believers were teaching change and destruction to the Law.

Jesus wanted his disciples to do what the Pharisees said to do...

yup...with a new Spirit and intent...

and Jesus also said the temple would be destroyed.

yup again...not because the Law was changed but because we are again, as Adam Abel Abraham were, our own priests with Him in our temple, made without hands, sitting on His mercy seat above the Law that points out sin...it's all internalized...

Now no one can do what the Pharisees said to do.

Except Pharisee Paul said now we can...

All day every day I observe Jesus.

you watch Him? Do as He did do you?

All day every day I do what God says to do.

which god is that because Yah said to keep the seventh day Holy...it is His...His Son fulfilled that obligation too...affirming it and not only teaching to keep the Law but as example by doing it...

That is right that not every one obeyed the works of the old law...however, that is why people were enemies of God. Now no one has to do the purification/ceremonial works to be near God because Jesus does the purification for all.

many will call on Him but only those that do the will of His Father will be saved...

No one ever HAD to...they wanted to...

No.

When there is light behind the man...there is a shadow before him...but when the light comes there are no shadows.

Again...Paul writes present tense "ARE shadows" not past tense were

And as the scars in His hands will always be...we will have signs and symbols of what was done for our benefit...from Sabbath to Sabbath shall all come and worship...or are you making Isaiah a liar too...

A shame too...I like Isaiah

 

[God's Truth]

Yup... and of those...only one actually includes the gentile...ironic no?

Ex20:10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the Lord thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy STRANGER that is within thy gates:

11 For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it."



I used the big letters and bolded them so you can clearly see how if ANYONE were with Israel and well, where Yah Himself was...the Sabbath was for you...

It is still like that...

You with Israel?

With Yah?

You are posting about teaching tools and shadows, but you don't seem to understand the Teacher has come; the Light has come.

We do not use teaching tools anymore; and, there are no shadows in Light.

Observing special days is now worthless.

The only thing that matters now is being put in Jesus and observing him all day everyday.

How do we do that?

By obeying him.

We do that by the Spirit he gave us.

 

[God's Truth]

Tell that to Adam and Eve who should have followed Paul's immediate advice to follow the Holy Spirit in peace and joy and NOT cause another to stumble...and fall...you know...disobey the Law.

"Romans 14:17 For the kingdom of God is not a matter of eating and drinking, but of righteousness, peace and joy in the Holy Spirit,"

Or does "in the Holy Spirit" include Sunday Ham? I rather think the Holy Spirit causes one to fully appreciate what is forbidden...clean and unclean...



Yes, the new order has no external regulations what so ever...lol

We ALWAYS have to obey God.

It has always been about obeying God.

In the time of Adam and Eve, it was about obeying God with one thing...not to eat from a certain tree.

In the time of Noah, it was about obeying by not doing wicked things.

As for Abraham, it was about obeying everything God said.

As for the time of Moses, it was about obeying the ceremonial works of the law.

As for us now, it is about obeying Jesus' teachings.

It has always been about believing God and obeying Him.

 

[God's Truth]

It is God the Father, Jesus Christ the Son, and the Holy Spirit.

It is NOT God the Father, Jesus Christ the Son, the Sabbath Day Saturday, and the Holy Spirit.

You have put a SHADOW up there with God.

A shadow is not up there with Jesus who is up there.

The shadow is of Jesus Christ who is above everything and everyone.

The shadow is a teaching tool.

We do not use teaching tools anymore because the Teacher has come.

 

[God's Truth]

Yes, the new order has no external regulations what so ever...lol

We have many things to do right. We have all the guidelines given by Jesus Christ for the New Covenant.

All Jesus' words are life.

When you obey Jesus and are saved, you know that the works of the purification/ceremonial works are no more.

Jesus did not come to earth and preach us how to do the old law Sabbath.

Jesus IS the Last, the Sabbath Day is the Last Day. Jesus is the First and the Last.

We no longer observe special days. We observe/live through Jesus all day every day.

How do we do that?

We search for God so that we can be saved...so that we can be His child...so we find Jesus' teachings...and we do what Jesus says so that we can be considered a child of God.

Jesus says when you drink his blood and eat his flesh, you will be given pure water to drink.

That pure water to drink is the Holy Spirit.

The Holy Spirit is the Spirit of God and Jesus Christ.

Having faith in Jesus is as drinking his blood.

Obeying Jesus' teaching s as eating his flesh.

After we eat and drink, we are given pure water to drink.

 

[God's Truth]

You keep saying...show me where Scripture does...

spoke? Absolutely. And he lived according to his speech. Keeping Sabbaths, and His calendar of feast days, kosher...or else how could he argue:

"They presented false witnesseswho said, "This man never stops speaking against this holy place and against the Law.

Yet my accusers did not find me debating with anyone in the temple or riling up a crowd in the synagogues or in the city.

I do confess to you, however, that I worship the God of our fathers according to the Way, which they call a sect. I believe everything that is laid down by the Law and written in the Prophets,

After three days, he called together the leaders of the Jews. When they had gathered, he said to them, "Brothers, although I have done nothing against our people or the customs of our fathers,

Then Paul made his defense: "I have done nothing wrong against the Jewish law or against the temple or against Caesar.""

See? He kept on keeping on...the interesting thing about that last one is he includes that he did nothing to annoy Caesar...now imagine if Paul was getting the Romans to worship another god on Caeser's day...Sunday was his day to be celebrated and worshipped...imagine him hearing about Paul stirring up the people to worship another God on his day...a non Roman god...a Man (of the hated joos even) Rome had already dispatched of...

You really need to think this out my friend...and read the study of the book of Acts this thread opens with...



Forget about my posting then...Twisting and distorting scripture as you do is a much bigger issue...

I already explained it to you. The earthly temple was still standing and the Pharisees and teachers of the law ENFORCED THE OLD LAW while they REJECTED JESUS and had him KILLED.

Who killed the LAMB?

Those who sat in Moses' seat...the priests killed the lambs, and any and all animals for the blood.

Jesus told his disciples to do that the Pharisees and teachers of the law said to do.

Jesus also said the temple would be destroyed.

Just because Jesus did not want all his disciples killed right off does NOT mean the Pharisees and teachers of the law taught right.

There. is. no. more. earthly. temple.

No one has to observe a special day anymore.

Jesus is the only thing special.

 

[God's Truth]

You keep saying...show me where Scripture does...

The Sabbath is about Rest. Jesus is our Rest. I already gave you scriptures.

Paul says observing special days are worthless. I gave you the scripture for that too.

spoke? Absolutely. And he lived according to his speech. Keeping Sabbaths, and His calendar of feast days, kosher...or else how could he argue:

"They presented false witnesseswho said, "This man never stops speaking against this holy place and against the Law.

Yet my accusers did not find me debating with anyone in the temple or riling up a crowd in the synagogues or in the city.

I do confess to you, however, that I worship the God of our fathers according to the Way, which they call a sect. I believe everything that is laid down by the Law and written in the Prophets,

After three days, he called together the leaders of the Jews. When they had gathered, he said to them, "Brothers, although I have done nothing against our people or the customs of our fathers,

Then Paul made his defense: "I have done nothing wrong against the Jewish law or against the temple or against Caesar.""

See? He kept on keeping on...the interesting thing about that last one is he includes that he did nothing to annoy Caesar...now imagine if Paul was getting the Romans to worship another god on Caeser's day...Sunday was his day to be celebrated and worshipped...imagine him hearing about Paul stirring up the people to worship another God on his day...a non Roman god...a Man (of the hated joos even) Rome had already dispatched of...

I am talking about the Jews and not about Caesar. Caesar did not want to be involved in the Jewish traditions.

I already explained all that to you too: WHEN THE TEMPLE WAS STILL STANDING…the rules for it were enforced by Christ haters---the Pharisees and teachers of the law who would have you arrested and put to death for not obeying.

You really need to think this out my friend...and read the study of the book of Acts this thread opens with...

You are silly if you think I have not read the book of Acts.

Forget about my posting then...Twisting and distorting scripture as you do is a much bigger issue...

I do no such thing. Maybe it is what you do.

 

[God's Truth]

Didn't recommend that site for you to debate that author silly...

I recommended you a site with an alternative view more inclined to mine so as you know where I am coming from...kinda of a cheat sheet glimpse at my notes or a "here it comes" warning before your argument gets knocked out...

But from seeing you stumble over the book of Acts I think Galatians can wait...you already have shown you make Paul and others...oh and Another...all liars and hypocrites...

I do no such thing. As for that article that you want me to read...no, you post here what you believe about that article. You want me to do your work for you. I am not sending you off to read from a site that explains my beliefs, nor should you.

 

[God's Truth]

There...fixed it for you so that you aren't lying...there is a world of difference between the two...literally...this world and the world to come

ummm...a person is not being offered here...it is knowledge...a message...line upon line...

If it was intended to be Him then "rest" would be written with a big R...like seed was written Seed because it was in reference to Him



Yup scripture will not be thrown out...as for you you're at strike two...lol


sure He did...when the end comes and the fleeing to the mountain begins, He singled out Sabbath...and to pray for for it to be kept and not desecrated with running far away and carrying things babies and children and getting all sweaty flustered and annoyed...that certainly is not rest...and certainly not what He had in mind for observing a special day...

He also said to do as He did...which was obey His Father's will...if you love Him

So...what did He do? Kept the Sabbath...Pharisees claimed He didn't...hmmmm are you a Pharisee?


He also told the rich young ruler who asked what he must do to be saved to "keep the commandments"...

but not because He said "Eat Sunday ham!"

yes because Pharisees thought as you did...that the new believers were teaching change and destruction to the Law.

yup...with a new Spirit and intent...

yup again...not because the Law was changed but because we are again, as Adam Abel Abraham were, our own priests with Him in our temple, made without hands, sitting on His mercy seat above the Law that points out sin...it's all internalized...



Except Pharisee Paul said now we can...

you watch Him? Do as He did do you?

which god is that because Yah said to keep the seventh day Holy...it is His...His Son fulfilled that obligation too...affirming it and not only teaching to keep the Law but as example by doing it...

many will call on Him but only those that do the will of His Father will be saved...

No one ever HAD to...they wanted to...





Again...Paul writes present tense "ARE shadows" not past tense were

And as the scars in His hands will always be...we will have signs and symbols of what was done for our benefit...from Sabbath to Sabbath shall all come and worship...or are you making Isaiah a liar too...

A shame too...I like Isaiah

Now go reread everything that I posted in reply to you. Maybe it will sink into your ears.

 

[Flaminggg]

1. Blood Sacrifice (Old Testament Theme) (Chastisement of the "Hearing of the Word", by invoking the Angels in the Churches)
2. Abstaining from Intercession (New Testament Theme) (Chastisement of the "Hearing of the Word", no respect of persons or churches) (No Signs or Visions to Reprove the Churches)
3. Condemnation by the Lord's Body (Revelation Theme) (Chastisement of the "Hearing of the Word", through the Sign of Divorce given to the Nations (Churches))

1. Jesus called the disciples to witness him sweat blood before betrayal by Judas
2. Jesus threw out all the money changes in the churches
3. Jesus called the congregation into the wilderness to break bread and fishes

(When did Jesus stop observing the Old Testament??? When did Jesus forbid a Sign or an Angel from chastisement of the Church??? Jesus stopped his miracles and the chastisement of the church shortly before he was taken into custody by Judas, so that is probably the best answer. We have not Signs or Visions to reprove mankind until we reach the Events of Revelation, then, mankind is cleansed according to their transgression against the Lord's Body (Blood Sacrifice of Genetic Dan to reveal more of the Sign of Divorce, after tolerating Genetic Dan for a season, with the immediate prospect of cleansing Genetic Dan in the City of Philadelphia and relative area for the Sign of Divorce) Love and Blessings (We have not reached the Events of Revelation, but we should be less than a year away for sure)

 

[clefty]

You are posting about teaching tools and shadows, but you don't seem to understand the Teacher has come; the Light has come.

Oh now it's teaching tools...eluding to the tutor...well let me ask you something...say it's math we are being taught...just because the teacher comes do we stop doing math? Or begin computing 1+1=3?

You seem to think that just because Yahushua arrived we stop what we learned or make changes as we wish...

We do not use teaching tools anymore; and, there are no shadows in Light.

you need to...your calculation is wrong

Observing special days is now worthless.

says you but Paul and the Teacher both taught and exemplified the opposite...

The only thing that matters now is being put in Jesus and observing him all day everyday.

How do we do that?

By obeying him.

We do that by the Spirit he gave us.

Obeying what again? Something contrary previous law? You would have the Holy Spirit lead us against the will of the Father?

If you observe Him you will do as He did...even take up your cross and follow Him...do so and you will never have Sunday Ham again...as He never did...

Obey Him His way indeed...As He obeyed His Father's will

 

[clefty]

We ALWAYS have to obey God.

It has always been about obeying God.

In the time of Adam and Eve, it was about obeying God with one thing...not to eat from a certain tree.

In the time of Noah, it was about obeying by not doing wicked things.

As for Abraham, it was about obeying everything God said.

As for the time of Moses, it was about obeying the ceremonial works of the law.

As for us now, it is about obeying Jesus' teachings.

It has always been about believing God and obeying Him.

Ok good so see you next Sabbath keeping it Holy...

As He did..instructing even that we pray so we don't break it to flee to the mountains...

 

[God's Truth]

Ok good so see you next Sabbath keeping it Holy...

Jesus is the Sabbath Day.

As He did..instructing even that we pray so we don't break it to flee to the mountains...

That was to the Jews for when the temple would be destroyed.