When Did the Disciples of Jesus Stop Observing the Old Testament Laws?

clefty

New member
Believe the scriptures that Jesus is the Sabbath and observing special days is worthless.

Galatians 4:9 But now that you know God, or rather are known by God, how is it that you are turning back to those weak and worthless principles?

Hebrews 4:8 Now if Joshua had given them rest, God would not have spoken later about another day. 9So there remains a Sabbath rest for the people of God. 10For whoever enters God’s rest also rests from his own work, just as God did from His.…

Had you read the opening peice you would realize you have Paul live and observe one way and teach another.

You are doing exactly what false witnesses were doing in attempts to slander Paul claiming he taught a change,even end, to the Law.

Peter even warned us Paul's writings were hard and would be falsely used...

These writers were killed for their uncompromising stance. Don't you think that if they could have made changes they would have?

You are thinking what you were instructed NOT to think...by the Law giver...

That jots and tittles were changed...

Do not think that...
 

God's Truth

New member
First text: is to Celtics who converted from pagan ways and were sliding back to them...those idols and their calendar of gods is worthless....
They were convinced by Jews to observe special days. Since Jesus, the observance of special days is not worthless.
 

God's Truth

New member
Second text: of course we have have the rest-paradise...still to look forward to...but for Yah's people there still remains a Sabbath rest keeping...

Jesus is the Sabbath Rest. For you to think the observance of a day is up there with Jesus is just ludicrous.

A shadow of a man is not the man itself.
 

God's Truth

New member
See? The rest which remains here is named Sabbath, not Jesus...a sabbath rest...not an eternal rest or 15 minute break...

You just proved my case.

Nor is Jesus named rest...

Again, a day is not above God. A day is not equal with God. There are not four. There isn't the Father, Son, the Holy Spirit, and the Sabbath.

The Sabbath is a SHADOW.

A shadow is under and before the Man.
 

God's Truth

New member
Had you read the opening peice you would realize you have Paul live and observe one way and teach another.

You are doing exactly what false witnesses were doing in attempts to slander Paul claiming he taught a change,even end, to the Law.

Peter even warned us Paul's writings were hard and would be falsely used...

Peter said the unstable and unacknowledged misunderstand Paul about works, because after he said that, HE WARNS US TO OBEY.

These writers were killed for their uncompromising stance. Don't you think that if they could have made changes they would have?

You have the chance to believe the truth. I tell you, I will prove what I say with scripture, and if you consider it carefully, you will be blessed for it.

You are thinking what you were instructed NOT to think...by the Law giver...

That jots and tittles were changed...

Do not think that...

Hebrews 7:12 For when the priesthood is changed, the law must be changed also.
 

Hawkins

Active member
I can hardly believe that clefty does not know that the Galatians were talked into following the old law.

No. The Jews in Galatia insist that the gentiles should observe the Jewish Law in order to be saved. Most issues at that time is due to the Jewish Christians would like the gentile Christians to follow the Jewish customs. The issues are not about if the Law is abolished, it's about how the Jews requesting the gentile Christians to follow the Jewish Law.
 

Hawkins

Active member
Hebrews 7:12 For when the priesthood is changed, the law must be changed also.

This is what I have pointed out before. It is the only part of the old Law which needs to be changed. As whatever serving as a form of sacrifice will have to be forfeited as Jesus has done it once and for all. This however has nothing to do with other parts of the Law, including the 10 commandments.
 

Hawkins

Active member
If you ask me, I am even ready to discard the concept of a Jew according to his or her bloodline. If the bloodline concept made a Jew out of a person, he or she would not lose it by embracing a different faith from the Jewish one. A "bloodline" Jew who become a Christian or Muslim or of any other religion, he or she would not cease being a Jew but they do. If you read Isaiah 56:1-8 those from among the Gentiles who decide to join God's Covenant with His People, get a name better than that of sons and daughters.

God said clearly that if you break the covenant you will be cut off from your people. That is, you are no long a Jew in the perspective of the coverage of the covenant.
 

clefty

New member
Peter said the unstable and unacknowledged misunderstand Paul about works, because after he said that, HE WARNS US TO OBEY.



You have the chance to believe the truth. I tell you, I will prove what I say with scripture, and if you consider it carefully, you will be blessed for it.



Hebrews 7:12 For when the priesthood is changed, the law must be changed also.

So now Sunday Ham?

Lol...really?

The law was for who was priest to administer the ceremony to restore those to the immutable law...

No priest even for original Passover...or Abel's Noah's Abraham's sacrifices

But now because He Who gave the Law Himself is the high priest again... He changed it to permitting ham on Sunday?
 

clefty

New member
They were convinced by Jews to observe special days.

Convinced? They were converts...they wanted to join. You are insinuating that these new believers wished to play ball with the team but not wear the uniform much less keep the rules of the game...laughable.

They crowded synagogues everywhere on Sabbaths to hear about One resurrected from the dead and heard the Torah read to them as James said at the council.

What the issue became was that there were those from "the tribe" who began to insist gentiles be circumcised to be saved or even allowed to hang out with them...that was an error as even Abraham was chosen and considered righteous before being circumcised Moses too...

When you join a club you usually go along with the club rules...especially the traditional ones, the rules that define the club, the ones written by the Founding members. See? Then ya get the benefits of being in that club...And not just lost in some faceless crowd.

Since Jesus, the observance of special days is not worthless.

Typo? Or which special days are you meaning? These?
Nativity
the Epiphany,
the Ascension,
the Body and Blood of Christ,
Holy Mary the Mother of God,
her Immaculate Conception,
her Assumption,
Saint Joseph,
Saint Peter and Saint Paul the Apostles,
and All Saints.

They are obligated is true...and people who wish to be in the Church willingly do so...

It's usual to do something because you are a member not to become one...
 

clefty

New member
Jesus is the Sabbath Rest.
you keep saying it but have yet to show were it was said...

For you to think the observance of a day is up there with Jesus is just ludicrous.
especially since I didn't say that I said obey Him...as He did...if you love Me do what? Eat Sunday Ham? No! you keep His commandments you establish them...rest one day in seven on the seventh...

You equate Him with rest itself. You just rest...no job...no work...no activities...no expenditure of energy? Get nothing done...why the slothful are nearly divine...

You actually have to do something to rest from doing it...but your abstraction of Jesus is rest equates Him to doing nothing...


A shadow of a man is not the man itself.

Sure points out where that man is...IS as in present tense...and as long as there is Light, there will be shadows to point to it...Sabbath is one...not was one...
 
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clefty

New member
You just proved my case.
no reading that the there still remains a Jesus rest for the people of Yah would prove your point...or reading that there still remains rest in Jesus would prove your point but I read there remains a SAbbath rest...actually a Sabbath keeping for the people of Yah...



Again, a day is not above God. A day is not equal with God. There are not four. There isn't the Father, Son, the Holy Spirit, and the Sabbath.
sooo true...but that's what they do...lol

A day is a measurement of time, and there is a time frame that He set apart blessed sanctified and made holy...and asked us to Remember it to keep it that way. During that time there is rest...a state of being...being at rest...as He was...it is an invitation to be in a state like He is Holy and at rest...but for us it ends as well we are mortals...so there is rest but it ends...and just like in the garden it ended too

The Sabbath is a SHADOW.
yup.. halleluYah...it sure is...and points out the Light...but worship of the sun gets much too hot...I prefer the shade

A shadow is under and before the Man.
as is His law...and for me a path and surety for my way...
 

clefty

New member
Peter said the unstable and unacknowledged misunderstand Paul about works, because after he said that, HE WARNS US TO OBEY.
they both taught us to obey...they warned of wolfs and snakes even angels who would be deceivers and who would preach another gospel...something different than the traditions which they taught...

Now you suppose they came up with a tradition that counters prior tradition? Paul kept sabbath and the feasts and Peter even kosher...



You have the chance to believe the truth. I tell you, I will prove what I say with scripture, and if you consider it carefully, you will be blessed for it.

Ok then..you do realize striking a rock with a staff was a command...walking around a walled city seven times was too...as was marrying a whore...some commandments were quite specific not intended for everyone all the time...the priestly line was like that...

Abel was his own priest too...



"Hebrews 7:12 For when the priesthood is changed, the law must be changed also."

Yup...the law changed is regarding who is priest...or can we kill steal fornicate worship other gods?
 

clefty

New member
God said clearly that if you break the covenant you will be cut off from your people. That is, you are no long a Jew in the perspective of the coverage of the covenant.

Not a race nor a religion do I see...
but a trick of semantics "the chosen" be...
 

God's Truth

New member
No. The Jews in Galatia insist that the gentiles should observe the Jewish Law in order to be saved. Most issues at that time is due to the Jewish Christians would like the gentile Christians to follow the Jewish customs. The issues are not about if the Law is abolished, it's about how the Jews requesting the gentile Christians to follow the Jewish Law.

There is only one law for Jews and Gentiles.
 

God's Truth

New member
This is what I have pointed out before. It is the only part of the old Law which needs to be changed. As whatever serving as a form of sacrifice will have to be forfeited as Jesus has done it once and for all. This however has nothing to do with other parts of the Law, including the 10 commandments.

It has to do with EVERYTHING.
 

God's Truth

New member
So now Sunday Ham?

Lol...really?

The law was for who was priest to administer the ceremony to restore those to the immutable law...

No priest even for original Passover...or Abel's Noah's Abraham's sacrifices

But now because He Who gave the Law Himself is the high priest again... He changed it to permitting ham on Sunday?

The written Word of God says the old law was about food and drink. The kingdom of God is not about that.

Romans 14:17 For the kingdom of God is not a matter of eating and drinking, but of righteousness, peace and joy in the Holy Spirit,

Hebrews 9:10 They are only a matter of food and drink and various ceremonial washings--external regulations applying until the time of the new order.
 

God's Truth

New member
Convinced? They were converts...they wanted to join. You are insinuating that these new believers wished to play ball with the team but not wear the uniform much less keep the rules of the game...laughable.

They crowded synagogues everywhere on Sabbaths to hear about One resurrected from the dead and heard the Torah read to them as James said at the council.

What the issue became was that there were those from "the tribe" who began to insist gentiles be circumcised to be saved or even allowed to hang out with them...that was an error as even Abraham was chosen and considered righteous before being circumcised Moses too...

When you join a club you usually go along with the club rules...especially the traditional ones, the rules that define the club, the ones written by the Founding members. See? Then ya get the benefits of being in that club...And not just lost in some faceless crowd.



Typo? Or which special days are you meaning? These?
Nativity
the Epiphany,
the Ascension,
the Body and Blood of Christ,
Holy Mary the Mother of God,
her Immaculate Conception,
her Assumption,
Saint Joseph,
Saint Peter and Saint Paul the Apostles,
and All Saints.

They are obligated is true...and people who wish to be in the Church willingly do so...

It's usual to do something because you are a member not to become one...

The observance of special days is worthless that is what the written Word of God says.

Do you believe that Paul spoke the truth for all?

I am getting the idea about you that you are a Paul hater.
 
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