Trumpcare will throw people off healthcare?

[drbrumley]

Ask everybody what they like about Obamacare, that's what we have now

That's a non answer....

I can list what I like about ObamaCare....which is nothing.

So answer the question if you can...

 

[WizardofOz]

Ask everybody what they like about Obamacare, that's what we have now

I am asking you what you like about the Republican alternative that is :idea: the topic of this thread.

What do you like about it?

 

[patrick jane]

I am asking you what you like about the Republican alternative that is :idea: the topic of this thread.

What do you like about it?

I like the possible legislative victory for Republicans and Trump. I haven't read the bill. What you don't like about it is ONLY what you've heard from Fake News outlets

 

[WizardofOz]

I like the possible legislative victory for Republicans and Trump. I haven't read the bill.

:doh:
Thank you Nancy Pelosi. Can I call you Nancy from now on? Thanks. Thank you for admitting that you don't know a damn thing about it but love it anyway simply because it's being pushed by Trump and the GOP

You have to pass the bill so you can find out what's in it, isn't that right? - Where have I heard that before? :think:

What you don't like about it is ONLY what you've heard from Fake News outlets

Says the guy who doesn't know a thing about the bill.

Start here
And here, junior.

Health care experts from across the political spectrum— liberal, moderate, and conservative —agreed that the House Republican health care bill was unworkable and suffered from fatal flaws, although specific objections varied depending on ideological perspective.[31] Experts agreed that the bill fell far short of the goals laid forth by Trump —"Affordable coverage for everyone; lower deductibles and health care costs; better care; and zero cuts to Medicaid"—because the bill was (1) "almost certain" to reduce overall health care coverage and increase deductibles and (2) would phase out the Medicaid expansion.[31] Among the key concerns identified by health-care experts were that (1) the tax credits funded at the level proposed in the bill are insufficient to pay for individual insurance, and could lead to Americans dropping out of the health care market;[32] (2) the bill's elimination of the ACA's community rating provision (barring insurance companies from charging older people more than three times what they charge younger people) would increase cost disparities between age groups and would increase premiums for Americans more prone to illness;[32] (3) the dropping of healthy people from the health insurance market (adverse selection[31]) could lead to insurer "death spirals" that would decrease choice; and (4) the phaseout of the Medicaid expansion was likely to result in a loss of healthcare for poorer Americans.[32]

Those little numbers are citations if you'd like to follow the sources and determine what is fake and what is real. Not liking news doesn't make it 'fake'.

Citation 1
Citation 2

After you read up a bit, get back to us and let us all know what you like about the bill. Also, why are 5 Republicans opposed thus far?

Heck, I'll even throw you a bone. I like that it would decrease the federal budget deficit by $119 billion over the next ten years. That's a positive. That's possibly the only positive I've seen so far. This bill is a mess.

 

[drbrumley]

I haven't read the bill.

If that is the case, how in the heavens do you even know if you like it or not....? Just because Republicans are pushing it along with Trump makes it ok....wow dude....

So obviously you can not speak on it...

 

[drbrumley]

:doh:
Thank you Nancy Pelosi. Can I call you Nancy from now on? Thanks. Thank you for admitting that you don't know a damn thing about it but love it anyway simply because it's being pushed by Trump and the GOP

You have to pass the bill so you can find out what's in it, isn't that right? - Where have I heard that before? :think:



Says the guy who doesn't know a thing about the bill.

Start here
And here, junior.

Health care experts from across the political spectrum— liberal, moderate, and conservative —agreed that the House Republican health care bill was unworkable and suffered from fatal flaws, although specific objections varied depending on ideological perspective.[31] Experts agreed that the bill fell far short of the goals laid forth by Trump —"Affordable coverage for everyone; lower deductibles and health care costs; better care; and zero cuts to Medicaid"—because the bill was (1) "almost certain" to reduce overall health care coverage and increase deductibles and (2) would phase out the Medicaid expansion.[31] Among the key concerns identified by health-care experts were that (1) the tax credits funded at the level proposed in the bill are insufficient to pay for individual insurance, and could lead to Americans dropping out of the health care market;[32] (2) the bill's elimination of the ACA's community rating provision (barring insurance companies from charging older people more than three times what they charge younger people) would increase cost disparities between age groups and would increase premiums for Americans more prone to illness;[32] (3) the dropping of healthy people from the health insurance market (adverse selection[31]) could lead to insurer "death spirals" that would decrease choice; and (4) the phaseout of the Medicaid expansion was likely to result in a loss of healthcare for poorer Americans.[32]

Those little numbers are citations if you'd like to follow the sources and determine what is fake and what is real. Not liking news doesn't make it 'fake'.

After you read up a bit, get back to us and let us all know what you like about the bill.

Heck, I'll even throw you a bone. I like that it would decrease the federal budget deficit by $119 billion over the next ten years. That's a positive. That's possibly the only positive I've seen so far. This bill is a mess.

Wiz, his attitude is what is wrong.....just amazing...

Gonna pray for Him.....

 

[Rusha]

Ask everybody what they like about Obamacare, that's what we have now

Millions of more people are covered. Children. Elderly. Poor people. IF Trump truly wished to have American's covered, he would have pushed for Medicare for all ... or something similar ... OR fixed the current healthcare bill.

Healthcare SHOULD BE about health. Not tax cuts. Bottomline, this was just another instance of Trump saying whatever was necessary when it served his purpose. That is what one calls a lie. I have no doubt this tax care bill for the rich WILL pass ... and the blood of every single person who dies due to being thrown off of healthcare is on Trump.

 

[drbrumley]

Millions of more people are covered.

And who pays for it?

 

[patrick jane]

Millions of more people are covered. Children. Elderly. Poor people. IF Trump truly wished to have American's covered, he would have pushed for Medicare for all ... or something similar. Healthcare SHOULD BE about health. Not tax cuts. Bottomline, this was just another instance of Trump saying whatever was necessary when it served his purpose. That is what one calls a lie.

Healthcare is not a right, never was

 

[exminister]

Ron Paul's speech on the House floor.

Transcript:

Government has been mismanaging medical care for more than 45 years; for every problem it has created it has responded by exponentially expanding the role of government.
Points to consider:

1. No one has a right to medical care. If one assumes such a right, it endorses the notion that some individuals have a right to someone else’s life and property. This totally contradicts the principles of liberty.

2. If medical care is provided by government, this can only be achieved by an authoritarian government unconcerned about the rights of the individual.

3. Economic fallacies accepted for more than 100 years in the United States has deceived policy makers into believing that quality medical care can only be achieved by government force, taxation, regulations, and bowing to a system of special interests that creates a system of corporatism.

4. More dollars into any monopoly run by government never increases quality but it always results in higher costs and prices.

5. Government does have an important role to play in facilitating the delivery of all goods and services in an ethical and efficient manner.

6. First, government should do no harm. It should get out of the way and repeal all the laws that have contributed to the mess we have.

7. The costs are obviously too high but in solving this problem one cannot ignore the debasement of the currency as a major factor.

8. Bureaucrats and other third parties must never be allowed to interfere in the doctor/patient relationship.

9. The tax code, including the ERISA laws, must be changed to give everyone equal treatment by allowing a 100% tax credit for all medical expenses.
Laws dealing with bad outcomes and prohibiting doctors from entering into voluntary agreements with their patients must be repealed. Tort laws play a significant role in pushing costs higher, prompting unnecessary treatment and excessive testing. Patients deserve the compensation; the attorneys do not.

10. Insurance sales should be legalized nationally across state lines to increase competition among the insurance companies.

11. Long-term insurance policies should be available to young people similar to term-life insurances that offer fixed prices for long periods of time.

12. The principle of insurance should be remembered. Its purpose in a free market is to measure risk, not to be used synonymously with social welfare programs. Any program that provides for first-dollar payment is no longer insurance. This would be similar to giving coverage for gasoline and repair bills to those who buy car insurance or providing food insurance for people to go to the grocery store. Obviously, that could not work.

13. The cozy relationship between organized medicine and government must be reversed.
Early on medical insurance was promoted by the medical community in order to boost re-imbursements to doctors and hospitals. That partnership has morphed into the government/insurance industry still being promoted by the current administration.

14. Threatening individuals with huge fines by forcing them to buy insurance is a boon to the insurance companies.

15. There must be more competition for individuals entering into the medical field. Licensing strictly limits the number of individuals who can provide patient care. A lot of problems were created in 20th century as a consequence the Flexner Report (1910), which was financed by the Carnegie Foundation and strongly supported by the AMA. Many medical schools were closed and the number of doctors was drastically reduced. The motivation was to close down medical schools that catered to women, minorities and especially homeopathy. We continue to suffer from these changes which were designed to protect physician’s income and promote allopathic medicine over the more natural cures and prevention of homeopathic medicine.

16. We must remove any obstacles for people seeking holistic and nutritional alternatives to current medical care. We must remove the threat of further regulations pushed by the drug companies now working worldwide to limit these alternatives.

True competition in the delivery of medical care is what is needed, not more government meddling.

:up:

Well, how does health care not fall into the public domain? If the poor or middle class unemployed or underemployed cannot afford health care and they will not get preventative care. In a crisis, that could have been handle early with preventative care, they show up at the emergency room which is very expensive. Is it Rand's plan and/or the Republican plan that they should be turned away? If not (which breaches Ryan's rule #1) and they cannot pay, eventually the hospital will have do a tax write off which affects the American taxpayers liberty. So either we have dead people lying in front of hospitals because they have been refused or the taxpayers will cover it.

What have I missed?

 

[drbrumley]

What have I missed?

Obviously quite alot...

 

[Rusha]

Healthcare is not a right, never was

In that case, why do you support Trump's health-care slashing tax cut for the rich that he has labeled healthcare? Also, let me just take a moment to say that being anti-affordable healthcare is anti-child and anti-prolife. However, that is a topic for a different thread.

 

[WizardofOz]

Healthcare SHOULD BE about health. Not tax cuts.

Cut taxes for all so that all are more likely to be able to afford free market coverage...

Obamacare cause my insurance premiums to triple so I dropped coverage and paid the tax. It's completely backwards in my opinion.

 

[exminister]

Obviously quite alot...

So funny I forgot to laugh.

Do you have an answer to my question?

 

[drbrumley]

So funny I forgot to laugh.

Do you have an answer to my question?

You had a question? I saw questions, then answered with democratic talking points..

So why bother....

 

[exminister]

You had a question? I saw questions, then answered with democratic talking points..

So why bother....

I want to know what Rand Paul's plan is for the poor who can't afford health care if they show up at the emergency room. Should they be rejected? What you presented doesn't even mention it and his point 1 essentially says do not treat them.

 

[drbrumley]

I want to know what Rand Paul's plan is for the poor who can't afford health care if they show up at the emergency room. Should they be rejected? What you presented doesn't even mention it and his point 1 essentially says do not treat them.

point 1 doesn't essentially say anything to that.

But maybe Paul answers your question here.

https://www.paul.senate.gov/imo/media/doc/ObamacareReplacementActSections.pdf

Obviously healthcare is a right to you..you are entitled to to it, at the expense of others.

 

[WizardofOz]

I want to know what Rand Paul's plan is for the poor who can't afford health care if they show up at the emergency room. Should they be rejected? What you presented doesn't even mention it and his point 1 essentially says do not treat them.

https://www.paul.senate.gov/imo/media/doc/ObamacareReplacementActSections.pdf

Charity Care and Bad Debt Deduction for Physicians​ Amends the Internal Revenue Code to allow a physician a tax deduction equal to the amount such physician would otherwise charge for charity medical care or uncompensated care due to bad debt. This deduction is limited to 10% of a physician’s gross income for the taxable year.

:up:

 

[exminister]

point 1 doesn't essentially say anything to that.

But maybe Paul answers your question here.

https://www.paul.senate.gov/imo/media/doc/ObamacareReplacementActSections.pdf

Obviously healthcare is a right to you..you are entitled to to it, at the expense of others.

I was reading that and looking elsewhere. Rand equates helping those in need unwillingly as forced conscription. I simply wanted to know what his plan was and now I see it has to be if you don't have insurance or ability to pay at the emergency room you are sent packing. So I see that as heartless. It is consistent with his overall plan that paying for someone else unwillingly is "taking away their liberty" even if it for the public good. I not saying it's a right or not. I am just seeing it is without compassion.

I cannot see supporting such a plan.

 

[patrick jane]

Since this new plan is not a repeal of Obamacare, Republicans should just scrap it and stick with Obamacare until the bitter end. Let tens of millions Americans suffer with it or go without coverage, paying a tax instead. The problem in the last 50 years is that demonrats have been inching closer to universal government healthcare by expanding entitlements. The old, the young, the poor, the unemployed etc., always expanding eligibility for free coverage. Medicaid was originally for pregnant women and the disabled. The new plan gives control back to the states where it belongs. Covfefe