Trumpcare will throw people off healthcare?

[ClimateSanity]

The country is headed toward single payer ACW. We must do whatever is necessary to prevent that from happening. What is going on in the Senate right now is part of that battle.

 

[ClimateSanity]

Jeffblue describes what I am talking about well:

http://theologyonline.com/showthrea...macare-is-politically-impossible-to-implement

 

[aCultureWarrior]

You seem to be hesitant to talk about how it's impossible to get 100℅ of what we want in today's political climate.

If you're looking for someone who comprises when it comes to evil, you're looking at the wrong guy (hence the reason I refused to vote for Trump).

The country is headed toward single payer ACW. We must do whatever is necessary to prevent that from happening. What is going on in the Senate right now is part of that battle.

I'm not sure who you are referring to when you say "we", because I've steadfastly exposed leftwinger Donald Trump during the primaries and continue to do so in his presidency. For that I'm called a "liberal" by Trump lemmings.

 

[kmoney]

Seriously, you don't know how the free market operates?

Yes I know how they are supposed to operate but I was focusing on what Peter said would lead to high costs. 1) Companies are payers of medical bills instead of providers of insurance and 2) Only sick people would get it.

I may have the history wrong but I thought that companies have been payers of medical bills for a long time and I tend to think people like it being that way. Also, in a free market system the problem of only the sick buying it would probably only get worse.

I do like Schiff's idea of getting employers out of it though.

 

[ClimateSanity]

If you're looking for someone who comprises when it comes to evil, you're looking at the wrong guy (hence the reason I refused to vote for Trump).





I'm not sure who you are referring to when you say "we", because I've steadfastly exposed leftwinger Donald Trump during the primaries and continue to do so in his presidency. For that I'm called a "liberal" by Trump lemmings.

You don't seem to understand that you are compromising with evil by refusing to do what is necessary to stop single payer healthcare.

 

[aCultureWarrior]

Yes I know how they are supposed to operate but I was focusing on what Peter said would lead to high costs. 1) Companies are payers of medical bills instead of providers of insurance and 2) Only sick people would get it.

I may have the history wrong but I thought that companies have been payers of medical bills for a long time and I tend to think people like it being that way. Also, in a free market system the problem of only the sick buying it would probably only get worse.

I do like Schiff's idea of getting employers out of it though.

The only legitimate business government has in healthcare is to deal with any fraudulent activity that might be going on. Competition drives the free market, let different insurance companies compete for business. If some of them want to offer coverage for pre-existing conditions, then of course those people's premiums would be higher (like any other insurance: auto, life, etc.)

Regarding employers: My employer covers quite a substantial amount of my premium, it's part of the company's benefit package.

 

[aCultureWarrior]

You don't seem to understand that you are compromising with evil by refusing to do what is necessary to stop single payer healthcare.

I'm looking at the big picture: the impeachment of the pathological lying President and then doing what the 2016 election was all about: returning the Republican Party to a anti Establishment/conservative ideology.

 

[jeffblue101]

I'm looking at the big picture: the impeachment of the pathological lying President and then doing what the 2016 election was all about: returning the Republican Party to a anti Establishment/conservative ideology.

you're completely delusional.

 

[jeffblue101]

For real? You'd do that just to get a bill through now? What will you say when the other side can push through whatever they want with no filibuster? That's so shortsighted.

the filibuster is a relic of the past when there was significant common ground between both parties and an agreement that the filibuster should be used sparingly. The way that I see it the modern day use of the filibuster is nothing but a suicide pact where no one is allowed to pass well reasoned laws.

 

[aCultureWarrior]

Originally Posted by aCultureWarrior
I'm looking at the big picture: the impeachment of the pathological lying President and then doing what the 2016 election was all about: returning the Republican Party to a anti Establishment/conservative ideology.

you're completely delusional.

Tell me Jeffrey: Were you fooled into voting for someone who you thought was a conservative, but turned out to be a socialist leaning pervert or did you know Trump's true agenda all along?

 

[ok doser]

you're completely delusional.

and obsessive

it's a dangerous combination

 

[exminister]

Ron Paul's speech on the House floor.

Transcript:

Government has been mismanaging medical care for more than 45 years; for every problem it has created it has responded by exponentially expanding the role of government.
Points to consider:

1. No one has a right to medical care. If one assumes such a right, it endorses the notion that some individuals have a right to someone else’s life and property. This totally contradicts the principles of liberty.

2. If medical care is provided by government, this can only be achieved by an authoritarian government unconcerned about the rights of the individual.

3. Economic fallacies accepted for more than 100 years in the United States has deceived policy makers into believing that quality medical care can only be achieved by government force, taxation, regulations, and bowing to a system of special interests that creates a system of corporatism.

4. More dollars into any monopoly run by government never increases quality but it always results in higher costs and prices.

5. Government does have an important role to play in facilitating the delivery of all goods and services in an ethical and efficient manner.

6. First, government should do no harm. It should get out of the way and repeal all the laws that have contributed to the mess we have.

7. The costs are obviously too high but in solving this problem one cannot ignore the debasement of the currency as a major factor.

8. Bureaucrats and other third parties must never be allowed to interfere in the doctor/patient relationship.

9. The tax code, including the ERISA laws, must be changed to give everyone equal treatment by allowing a 100% tax credit for all medical expenses.
Laws dealing with bad outcomes and prohibiting doctors from entering into voluntary agreements with their patients must be repealed. Tort laws play a significant role in pushing costs higher, prompting unnecessary treatment and excessive testing. Patients deserve the compensation; the attorneys do not.

10. Insurance sales should be legalized nationally across state lines to increase competition among the insurance companies.

11. Long-term insurance policies should be available to young people similar to term-life insurances that offer fixed prices for long periods of time.

12. The principle of insurance should be remembered. Its purpose in a free market is to measure risk, not to be used synonymously with social welfare programs. Any program that provides for first-dollar payment is no longer insurance. This would be similar to giving coverage for gasoline and repair bills to those who buy car insurance or providing food insurance for people to go to the grocery store. Obviously, that could not work.

13. The cozy relationship between organized medicine and government must be reversed.
Early on medical insurance was promoted by the medical community in order to boost re-imbursements to doctors and hospitals. That partnership has morphed into the government/insurance industry still being promoted by the current administration.

14. Threatening individuals with huge fines by forcing them to buy insurance is a boon to the insurance companies.

15. There must be more competition for individuals entering into the medical field. Licensing strictly limits the number of individuals who can provide patient care. A lot of problems were created in 20th century as a consequence the Flexner Report (1910), which was financed by the Carnegie Foundation and strongly supported by the AMA. Many medical schools were closed and the number of doctors was drastically reduced. The motivation was to close down medical schools that catered to women, minorities and especially homeopathy. We continue to suffer from these changes which were designed to protect physician’s income and promote allopathic medicine over the more natural cures and prevention of homeopathic medicine.

16. We must remove any obstacles for people seeking holistic and nutritional alternatives to current medical care. We must remove the threat of further regulations pushed by the drug companies now working worldwide to limit these alternatives.

True competition in the delivery of medical care is what is needed, not more government meddling.

:up:

Well, how does health care not fall into the public domain? If the poor or middle class unemployed or underemployed cannot afford health care and they will not get preventative care. In a crisis, that could have been handle early with preventative care, they show up at the emergency room which is very expensive. Is it Rand's plan and/or the Republican plan that they should be turned away? If not (which breaches Ryan's rule #1) and they cannot pay, eventually the hospital will have do a tax write off which affects the American taxpayers liberty. So either we have dead people lying in front of hospitals because they have been refused or the taxpayers will cover it.

What have I missed?

 

[exminister]

Trump’s forbidden love: Single-payer health care

May 5, 2017

President Trump claimed a victory Thursday after the House approved a more free-market approach to health care.

Then he capped it off by praising a country with government-run, universal health care.

Alongside Australian Prime Minister Malcolm Turnbull at an event in New York, Trump reflected on what the House had just done. He took the occasion to bash Obamacare as being terrible, and then he turned to Turnbull.

"We have a failing health care — I shouldn't say this to our great gentleman and my friend from Australia," Trump said, as The Post's Abby Phillip reports, "because you have better health care than we do."

Australia's health-care system is run by the government. It's essentially a single-payer, Medicare-for-all system that is available to everyone, with private insurance also available. (They even call it "Medicare.")

Consider this merely the latest evidence that Trump, in his heart of hearts, wants single-payer health care. Indeed, it seems to be his forbidden fruit.

Back in 2000, he advocated for it as both a potential Reform Party presidential candidate and in his book, "The America We Deserve."

We must have universal health care. Just imagine the improved quality of life for our society as a whole," he wrote, adding: "The Canadian-style, single-payer system in which all payments for medical care are made to a single agency (as opposed to the large number of HMOs and insurance companies with their diverse rules, claim forms and deductibles) … helps Canadians live longer and healthier than Americans."

Just before the 2016 campaign, Trump appeared on David Letterman's show and held up Scotland's socialized system as the ideal.

Read more: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...nge-payer-health-care/?utm_term=.5b6c1c55f728

Is there really any doubt that Donald Trump is a socialist?

The missing part is Trump doesn't understand any of this. He doesnt understand healthcare here or abroad. He said he didn't know it was so complicated and he can't stand to let that hang in the air, so he said no one understands it. LOL.

I don't think he has the time or interest to understand the health care issues. It's a major annoyance for him. He is relying on the Republican establishment to get it right and they will fail him.

 

[patrick jane]

I say scrap healthcare, let it finish collapsing and let the demonrats clean it up!! The party with no plan and no leaders

 

[patrick jane]

Trumpcare is a responsible middle ground between liberals and conservatives- in reality, it's irresponsible for anyone, Right or Left, to be so hostile toward it_

Good Post

 

[jgarden]

I say scrap healthcare, let it finish collapsing and let the demonrats clean it up!! The party with no plan and no leaders

Behind all the smoke and mirrors, "patrick jane" is forced to concede that Obama, Pelosi, Reid and the Democrats succeeded in enacting an overhaul of the healthcare system where Trump, Ryan, McConnell and the Republicans have failed!

For 8 years, the Republicans have been promising the Party faithful that given the opportunity, they would to repeal and replace Obamacare.

Now that this opportunity has dropped into their laps, they are unable to get their act together, and have dithered away precious months - with nothing to show!

In 2009, the Democrats inherited an economy in total disarray, and still managed to pass "Obamacare" over a period of a year in a far more transparent manner with dozens of consultations with he public and stakeholders!

 

[WizardofOz]

Trumpcare is a responsible middle ground between liberals and conservatives- in reality, it's irresponsible for anyone, Right or Left, to be so hostile toward it_

Specifically, what do you like about Trumpcare?
[MENTION=16629]patrick jane[/MENTION] - feel free to address this as well

 

[drbrumley]

Specifically, what do you like about Trumpcare?
[MENTION=16629]patrick jane[/MENTION] - feel free to address this as well

We might be waiting for along time to get this answer.

 

[Rusha]

Trumpcare is a responsible middle ground between liberals and conservatives-

No it isn't. It's breaking a promise, and the intention behind it is evil at best. It's a tax cut for the rich that is paid for with the health and lives of children, poor and the elderly.

in reality, it's irresponsible for anyone, Right or Left, to be so hostile toward it_

It is irresponsible to enable Trump as well as anti-American.

 

[patrick jane]

Specifically, what do you like about Trumpcare?
@patrick jane - feel free to address this as well

Ask everybody what they like about Obamacare, that's what we have now