Derf
Well-known member
Why did John spend so much ink on telling Israelites to love one another?
I guess your post is an admission, however slight, that they weren't only written to Israelites, but were focused on Israel. That might be progress.
These are NOT the same gospel
- Thread starter Right Divider
- Start date
I guess your post is an admission, however slight, that they weren't only written to Israelites, but were focused on Israel. That might be progress.
Right Divider
Body part
Why not? Israelite's should love other Israelite's. Should they not?
I have never said that they cannot be of value to non-Israelite's, i.e., gentiles. But they are to and for Israel directly. That there are some universal principles should be obvious enough to anyone.
I do appreciate how you ignored the important points that I made.
glorydaz
Well-known member
Oh, well I certainly agree with that. I was thinking about who John's letters were addressed to which would be the Jews. Israel, as you say. Also, I'm pretty sure they were addressed to tribulation "saints" because they thought the tribulation and 2nd coming was at hand.
Derf
Well-known member
Then it seems like the dichotomy is a useless one. And pointing out that those letters are written to Israelites is unnecessarily divisive, which John seemed to be writing against.
glorydaz
Well-known member
Being saved unto eternal life is NOT the same as being saved from shipwreck.
Right Divider
Body part
You're quite simply wrong, but your opinion rules your head.
Since you will not read what I write and continue as if I wrote nothing.... welcome to my ignore list.
glorydaz
Well-known member
Unlike you, John knew quite well that he was writing to fellow Jews. The Jews were never required to love the gentiles.
Acts 11:19 Now they which were scattered abroad upon the persecution that arose about Stephen travelled as far as Phenice, and Cyprus, and Antioch,
This part being the most important....
19 Now they which were scattered abroad upon the persecution that arose about Stephen travelled as far as Phenice, and Cyprus, and Antioch, preaching the word to none but unto the Jews only.
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Derf
Well-known member
Only as a matter of degree. Being saved unto eternal life is exactly the same on an ongoing basis as being saved from a single death.
Derf
Well-known member
How could Jesus at one time tell the Jews to go to the ends of the earth to tell them how to be saved without wanting the Jews to love them? Why would he give them the story of the Good Samaritan without wanting his disciples to love Samaritans?
It's interesting that @Right Divider has bowed out of the conversation right when we get to the point about Jews loving gentiles.
glorydaz
Well-known member
You say that because you think the body is everything. It is merely the tent in which we dwell. We don't cease to exist...nor are we dead just because we put off this body of flesh.
glorydaz
Well-known member
Jesus wasn't talking about the gentiles. Why don't you give the scripture you're talking about? I'll give you one.
Matthew 10:5
These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not:
glorydaz
Well-known member
This is the part I wanted you to see, Derf.
Acts 11:19 19 Now they which were scattered abroad upon the persecution that arose about Stephen travelled as far as Phenice, and Cyprus, and Antioch, preaching the word to none but unto the Jews only.
glorydaz
Well-known member
It was commanded. Do you think it's possible to command someone to love?
John 15:12
This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you.
Derf
Well-known member
This tells me I'm not explaining things very well. I don't think the body is everything. I recognize that there's a part of us that is immaterial. But I'm saying the immaterial parts don't function without the material parts, and neither do the material without the immaterial.
Yet Jesus went into Samaria and gave the gospel to a Samaritan.
1 John 2:6 (KJV) He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.
Derf
Well-known member
And that's descriptive, but not prescriptive.
glorydaz
Well-known member
I understand what you're saying, but you're just wrong. There are souls in heaven as we speak just waiting for their resurrected bodies.
Rev. 6:9-10
9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held: 10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?
Did He? What scripture are you referring to?
"Ought" but unable. That's the part you're missing.
glorydaz
Well-known member
LOL I already gave you one that was prescriptive. I don't mind giving it again.
Matthew 10:5
These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not:
Derf
Well-known member
And that was both prescriptively and descriptively overridden.
Acts 1:8 (KJV)
But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.
Acts 8:5 (KJV)
Then Philip went down to the city of Samaria, and preached Christ unto them.
And if overridden, then it had served its purpose and was no longer in effect.
Derf
Well-known member
I'll let the death business alone for a different thread.
Here's where Jesus gave the gospel to the Samaritan woman.
John 4:14 (KJV) But whosoever drinketh of the water that I shall give him shall never thirst; but the water that I shall give him shall be in him a well of water springing up into everlasting life.
glorydaz
Well-known member
Neither of those has overridden what was said here in Acts 11.
Your quote above is speaking of the church in Jerusalem who believed in the Messiah. "Them" is speaking of the Jews who were scattered after the persecution of Stephen. They were not preaching to the gentiles. They were not even to speak to the gentiles. Peter had not even had his vision of the sheet and his message of the clean and the unclean. Cornelius had not yet been approached and it took an act of God to get Peter to even speak to Cornelius. Notice what Peter says to this gentile.
Acts 10:28 And he said unto them, Ye know how that it is an unlawful thing for a man that is a Jew to keep company, or come unto one of another nation; but God hath shewed me that I should not call any man common or unclean.
You have not yet addressed this.
Notice Acts 1 and Acts 8 come before Acts 11?
Acts 11:19 Now they which were scattered abroad upon the persecution that arose about Stephen travelled as far as Phenice, and Cyprus, and Antioch, preaching the word to none but unto the Jews only.