These are NOT the same gospel

[Derf]

Neither of those has overridden what was said here in Acts 11.

Your quote above is speaking of the church in Jerusalem who believed in the Messiah. "Them" is speaking of the Jews who were scattered after the persecution of Stephen. They were not preaching to the gentiles. They were not even to speak to the gentiles. Peter had not even had his vision of the sheet and his message of the clean and the unclean. Cornelius had not yet been approached and it took an act of God to get Peter to even speak to Cornelius. Notice what Peter says to this gentile.

Acts 10:28 And he said unto them, Ye know how that it is an unlawful thing for a man that is a Jew to keep company, or come unto one of another nation; but God hath shewed me that I should not call any man common or unclean.

You have not yet addressed this.

Notice Acts 1 and Acts 8 come before Acts 11?

Acts 11:19 Now they which were scattered abroad upon the persecution that arose about Stephen travelled as far as Phenice, and Cyprus, and Antioch, preaching the word to none but unto the Jews only.

Acts 11:19 is descriptive again. It followed the prescriptive commission in Acts 1:8. But that doesn't mean they wanted to do it.
It took a number of acts of God to get them to go to the Gentiles. Finally Jesus had to appear to Saul in order to get anyone to go, beyond the direct command and vision to go to Cornelius.

But you were the one that said they weren't supposed to go into the cities of Samaritans, yet now you are quoting verses where they went into the cities of the Samaritans (Acts 8:25 in particular). So why are you arguing with yourself? Were they obeying the Lord by going to the Samaritan cities or disobeying him?

If they obeyed by going to Samaria, were they obeying or disobeying when they wouldn't go to the Gentiles after God had showed Peter they were "clean"?

 

[glorydaz]

Acts 11:19 is descriptive again. It followed the prescriptive commission in Acts 1:8. But that doesn't mean they wanted to do it.

Please stop using the descriptive and prescriptive terms. Just try using plain English. It's easier for me to follow.

What difference does it make whether they wanted to or not? The facts are that the small flock grew, and drew the attention of the authorities -- Roman and Jews. So the persecution against these "Messianic" Jews got increasingly worse. When Stephen was stoned the Jews scattered.
You see that in Acts 8:1.

It took a number of acts of God to get them to go to the Gentiles. Finally Jesus had to appear to Saul in order to get anyone to go, beyond the direct command and vision to go to Cornelius.

They didn't go to the gentiles. That one visit to Cornelius was to show Peter that it was God's will that gentiles be considered clean. Had God not done that, Peter would have continued to keep the law regarding the gentiles, and would have stopped Paul in his tracks (or tried to).

But you were the one that said they weren't supposed to go into the cities of Samaritans, yet now you are quoting verses where they went into the cities of the Samaritans (Acts 8:25 in particular). So why are you arguing with yourself? Were they obeying the Lord by going to the Samaritan cities or disobeying him?

If they obeyed by going to Samaria, were they obeying or disobeying when they wouldn't go to the Gentiles after God had showed Peter they were "clean"?

I didn't say that. I was merely showing you scripture. I was pointing out that they were preaching only to the Jews....not the gentiles, as you seem to think they should be or were.

Acts 11:19 Now they which were scattered abroad upon the persecution that arose about Stephen travelled as far as Phenice, and Cyprus, and Antioch, preaching the word to none but unto the Jews only.

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[glorydaz]

If they obeyed by going to Samaria, were they obeying or disobeying when they wouldn't go to the Gentiles after God had showed Peter they were "clean"?

Oops, I missed this part. God didn't show Peter they were clean so he would go preach to the gentiles. He showed that to Peter so Peter wouldn't pitch a fit when Paul was raised up (a chosen vessel) as the apostle to the gentiles.

They weren't obeying or disobeying by going to Samaria....they were surviving the persecution that was coming upon them.

 

[Tambora]

the point about Jews loving gentiles.

The prophets taught that it was God's instruction all along for Israelites to be a light unto the Gentiles.

 

[glorydaz]

The prophets taught that it was God's instruction all along for Israelites to be a light unto the Gentiles.

And yet God had to send a sheet down from heaven before the chief apostle would even step foot in the door of a gentile.

 

[glorydaz]

How could Jesus at one time tell the Jews to go to the ends of the earth

to the Jews that were scattered.

 

[Derf]

to the Jews that were scattered.

You don't know that.

 

[glorydaz]

You don't know that.

Yes I do.

 

[Tambora]

And yet God had to send a sheet down from heaven before the chief apostle would even step foot in the door of a gentile.

God had to do a lot of thing with Peter to show him his error.
But he accepted what God showed him.
Peter accepted it again at the council of Jerusalem by acknowledging that no Jew or Gentile should be yoked with the law because even their own fathers could not successfully pull that load.
Their own prophets taught that one is not justified by the law plus believing faith, but by believing faith only.

Habakkuk 2:4 KJV​

(4) Behold, his soul which is lifted up is not upright in him: but the just shall live by his faith.​

And as good Bereans these men echo the prophets.

Galatians 2:16 KJV​

(16) Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.​

​

Hebrews 10:38 KJV​

(38) Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him.​

​

1 John 5:10-12 KJV​

(10) He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son.​

(11) And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.​

(12) He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.​

 

[glorydaz]

God had to do a lot of thing with Peter to show him his error.
But he accepted what God showed him.

I'm surprised you can down play the Cornelius episode like that.

Peter accepted it again at the council of Jerusalem by acknowledging that no Jew or Gentile should be yoked with the law because even their own fathers could not successfully pull that load.

Peter only spoke up because Paul rebuked him.

Their own prophets taught that one is not justified by the law plus believing faith, but by believing faith only.

Habakkuk 2:4 KJV​

(4) Behold, his soul which is lifted up is not upright in him: but the just shall live by his faith.​

Oh, so you actually believe Paul's teachings of justification by faith was taught by the prophets?

And as good Bereans these men echo the prophets.

Galatians 2:16 KJV​

(16) Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.Surel​

​

Hebrews 10:38 KJV​

(38) Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him.​

​

1 John 5:10-12 KJV​

(10) He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son.​

(11) And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.​

(12) He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.​

Surely you jest? "Good Bereans" don't try and mix law and grace.

 

[Tambora]

I'm surprised you can down play the Cornelius episode like that.

blah blah blah

Peter only spoke up because Paul rebuked him.

So?

Oh, so you actually believe Paul's teachings of justification by faith was taught by the prophets?

Absolutely.
It was the prophets that said the just shall live by faith.
it was the prophets that said God wanted mercy rather than sacrifices.
etc.

Surely you jest? "Good Bereans" don't try and mix law and grace.

They certainly don't, because they search the scriptures.
And the scriptures say Abraham was justified by faith without works and the law cannot annul it.
Any with that faith are his children.

 

[glorydaz]

blah blah blah



So?


Absolutely.
It was the prophets that said the just shall live by faith.
it was the prophets that said God wanted mercy rather than sacrifices.
etc.



They certainly don't, because they search the scriptures.
And the scriptures say Abraham was justified by faith without works and the law cannot annul it.
Any with that faith are his children.

Wow. I think you've run out of material.

According to you, Paul wasn't even necessary.

 

[Derf]

Peter only spoke up because Paul rebuked him

Are to serious? Peter didn't need rebuking to tell his story. Acts 11:18 (KJV) When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life.

Or this time:
Acts 15:6-7 (KJV) 6 And the apostles and elders came together for to consider of this matter. 7 And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men [and] brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe.

There's nothing in either of those telling stories suggest Peter was rebuked.

When Peter was rebuked by Paul, it was for hypocrisy, because Peter was not obeying the law to not eat with Gentiles until some law observers came. This shows that Peter was following Paul's teaching by this time.
Galatians 2:9 (KJV) And when James, Cephas, and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that was given unto me, they gave to me and Barnabas the right hands of fellowship; that we [should go] unto the heathen, and they unto the circumcision.
[some time passes]
Galatians 2:11 (KJV) But when Peter was come to Antioch, I withstood him to the face, because he was to be blamed.

Galatians 2:14 (KJV) But when I saw that they walked not uprightly according to the truth of the gospel, I said unto Peter before [them] all, If thou, being a Jew, livest after the manner of Gentiles, and not as do the Jews, why compellest thou the Gentiles to live as do the Jews?

 

[Tambora]

Wow. I think you've run out of material.

I have the WHOLE bible to draw conclusions.

According to you, Paul wasn't even necessary.

Paul was versed in Gentile and Jewish customs.
He had claim as a Jew and a Roman citizen.
He knew the scriptures well, and he knew the prophets taught the just shall live by faith, and he knew that works of the law never saved unto eternal life, and he knew that any with the faith of Abraham were his children.
He didn't have to alter God's plan that has been true from the beginning.
He was an excellent choice.

 

[musterion]

He was an excellent choice.

For what

 

[Tambora]

For what

To blend in as Jew and Gentile and expound the scriptures to both since God has always wanted both to come to Him.

 

[glorydaz]

I have the WHOLE bible to draw conclusions.


Paul was versed in Gentile and Jewish customs.
He had claim as a Jew and a Roman citizen.
He knew the scriptures well, and he knew the prophets taught the just shall live by faith, and he knew that works of the law never saved unto eternal life, and he knew that any with the faith of Abraham were his children.
He didn't have to alter God's plan that has been true from the beginning.
He was an excellent choice.

Ah, so Paul was a matter of convenience for God. How like God that is. LOL

 

[glorydaz]

To blend in as Jew and Gentile and expound the scriptures to both since God has always wanted both to come to Him.

Gee, it's too bad then that the Jews were blinded, and God wasn't able to get both to come to Him. Then even Paul.....

2 Timothy 1:15
This thou knowest, that all they which are in Asia be turned away from me; of whom are Phygellus and Hermogenes.

 

[musterion]

To blend in as Jew and Gentile and expound the scriptures to both since God has always wanted both to come to Him.

Christ said the G. C. would enable the Twelve with everything they would possibly need to convert gentiles as well as Jews.

So you don't know why God drafted Paul, which is all the proof I need. The real Tambora understood it years ago but you do not. You don't talk, think, or believe like she did AT ALL.

We who knew her aren't fooled. You are not Tambora.

 

[Right Divider]

Absolutely.
It was the prophets that said the just shall live by faith.
it was the prophets that said God wanted mercy rather than sacrifices.
etc.

The prophets knew nothing of the body of Christ.