These are NOT the same gospel

[Right Divider]

It is any wonder why some of us were questioning whether this has lately been the "real Tambora" posting these? The "new Tambora" definitely has a completely different take on things.

The teachings and deeds of Jesus either revealed grace or it didn't.

False dichotomy.

It did and you guys can't stand it.

Fake news.

The very fact that Jesus (God) became flesh to dwell among mankind, and died to atone for sin for mankind, and resurrected to defeat death for mankind has grace written all over it.

Again, please demonstrate where Jesus was "preaching the gospel of the grace of God" during His earthly ministry.

You can't undergird grace.
And the letter of the law never saved anyone.

Please show a post where someone claimed that the law saves.

I am leaving this thread, as I can't stand to watch another post saying that God taught that law saved instead of grace.

Again, nobody made that claim.

That sends shivers up my spine.

Get a grip.

God taught His grace is what saves from cover to cover of the Bible, and Jesus would never go against that at any time ever.

Again, please demonstrate where Jesus was "preaching the gospel of the grace of God" during His earthly ministry.

 

[JudgeRightly]

The teachings and deeds of Jesus either revealed grace or it didn't.

Jesus' teachings were about the law.

The "grace" aspect, that the law is undergirded by grace, wasn't revealed until Paul.

It did and you guys can't stand it.

Saying it doesn't make it so.

The very fact that Jesus (God) became flesh to dwell among mankind, and died to atone for sin for mankind, and resurrected to defeat death for mankind has grace written all over it.

Of course it does.

But that doesn't mean that Jesus taught grace while on earth.

Cause not a single person ever deserved it, and that's what grace is ---- unmerited favor.

Agreed.

You can't undergird grace.

I didn't say "undergird grace."

I said that the law was undergirded BY grace.

As you say:

And the letter of the law never saved anyone.

However, just because the law never saved anyone doesn't mean God did not require it of Israel.

I am leaving this thread, as I can't stand to watch another post saying that God taught that law saved instead of grace.

Jesus taught that keeping the law will result in the salvation of Israel.

That's quite a different thing than being saved by grace to eternal life.

That sends shivers up my spine.
God taught His grace is what saves from cover to cover of the Bible,

Chapter verse.

 

[Idolater]

Jesus' teachings were about the law. ....

Not when He taught them the 'DBR' before it happened. That was New Covenant.

 

[Right Divider]

Not when He taught them the 'DBR' before it happened. That was New Covenant.

The new covenant is between God and Israel.

Jesus taught the law before and after His resurrection.

Matt 23:1-3 (AKJV/PCE)
(23:1) Then spake Jesus to the multitude, and to his disciples, (23:2) Saying, The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat: (23:3) All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, [that] observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not.

Matt 28:19-20 (AKJV/PCE)
(28:19) ¶ Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: (28:20) Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, [even] unto the end of the world. Amen.

Jesus told them to keep the law AND to teach others to do the same.

 

[JudgeRightly]

Not when He taught them the 'DBR' before it happened.

Chapter verse.

That was New Covenant.

Nope.

 

[Idolater]

Chapter verse.

Luke 18:31-34 Then he took unto him the twelve, and said unto them, Behold, we go up to Jerusalem, and all things that are written by the prophets concerning the Son of man shall be accomplished. For he shall be delivered unto the Gentiles, and shall be mocked, and spitefully entreated, and spitted on: And they shall scourge him, and put him to death: and the third day he shall rise again. And they understood none of these things: and this saying was hid from them, neither knew they the things which were spoken.

Nope.

Show where the Old Covenant includes the sacrificial death of a perfect Man for the remission of sins for all those who believe in Him, iow the 'DBR'?

 

[glorydaz]

Show where the Old Covenant includes the sacrificial death of a perfect Man for the remission of sins for all those who believe in Him, iow the 'DBR'?

Is it preaching when no one understands what was spoken?
That reminds me of speaking in tongues, and having no one there to interpret.

"they understood none of these things: and this saying was hid from them, neither knew they the things which were spoken".

Is it preaching or teaching when the words are hidden from the people?

Why be so stubborn over something that is clearly shown in scripture?

 

[Idolater]

Is it preaching when no one understands what was spoken?
That reminds me of speaking in tongues, and having no one there to interpret.

"they understood none of these things: and this saying was hid from them, neither knew they the things which were spoken".

Is it preaching or teaching when the words are hidden from the people?

Do you think Jesus hid it from them, or do you think "this saying was hid from them" was just saying, they did not 'get it'?

Why be so stubborn over something that is clearly shown in scripture?

I've never denied any scripture you've quoted, including the one above. It's there. It does not mean that Jesus didn't teach the 'DBR'. He did.

 

[glorydaz]

Do you think Jesus hid it from them, or do you think "this saying was hid from them" was just saying, they did not 'get it'?

I've never denied any scripture you've quoted, including the one above. It's there. It does not mean that Jesus didn't teach the 'DBR'. He did.

You were doing well, until you donkeyed down at the end.

Jesus hid it from them, and they were the only ones present. So it was NOT taught.

Deut. 29:29 The secret things belong unto the Lord our God: but those things which are revealed belong unto us and to our children for ever, that we may do all the words of this law.

He was very explicit. He didn't reveal it to them (their understanding), because He knew they would fight to keep it from happening. You remember...."then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews:"

 

[Right Divider]

14 years. Not 17.

Then after fourteen years I went up again to Jerusalem with Barnabas, and also took Titus with me. - Galatians 2:1 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Galatians2:1&version=NKJV

I'm not sure if I replied to this before, but you have to add the three years to the fourteen.

Gal 1:17-19 (AKJV/PCE)
(1:17) Neither went I up to Jerusalem to them which were apostles before me; but I went into Arabia, and returned again unto Damascus. (1:18) Then after three years I went up to Jerusalem to see Peter, and abode with him fifteen days. (1:19) But other of the apostles saw I none, save James the Lord's brother.

Gal 2:1 (AKJV/PCE)
(2:1) Then fourteen years after I went up again to Jerusalem with Barnabas, and took Titus with [me] also.

So Paul's first trip to Jerusalem was three years and the second trip was fourteen years after that, a total of seventeen years.

 

[JudgeRightly]

I'm not sure if I replied to this before, but you have to add the three years to the fourteen.

Gal 1:17-19 (AKJV/PCE)
(1:17) Neither went I up to Jerusalem to them which were apostles before me; but I went into Arabia, and returned again unto Damascus. (1:18) Then after three years I went up to Jerusalem to see Peter, and abode with him fifteen days. (1:19) But other of the apostles saw I none, save James the Lord's brother.

Gal 2:1 (AKJV/PCE)
(2:1) Then fourteen years after I went up again to Jerusalem with Barnabas, and took Titus with [me] also.

So Paul's first trip to Jerusalem was three years and the second trip was fourteen years after that, a total of seventeen years.

So the Jerusalem Council was 17 years after Paul's conversion, which was about a year after Pentacost?

 

[Right Divider]

So the Jerusalem Council was 17 years after Paul's conversion, which was about a year after Pentacost?

Sounds correct to me.

 

[JudgeRightly]

Sounds correct to me.

Noted! Thanks!

 

[Right Divider]

Noted! Thanks!

You're welcome.