Except that is not what I said.
These are NOT the same gospel
- Thread starter Right Divider
- Start date
There were both Jews and Gentiles that did not come to the Lord.
I don't see that as God's fault, but you can if you want to.
Continue to be an idiot if you wish.
And yet Paul used OT scripture to show that what was not fully understood to them at the time was still very prophetic.
That faithful believers of all the world (Jew & Gentile) would be Abraham's children that are justified by believing faith apart from works.
Right Divider
Body part
Paul often used OT scripture to express ideas that were not directly related to the original context of those scriptures. Like he does in Romans 8:36.
Again, faith without works was not always the way that God works. Israelite's were required to have faith and works. James says that. He also uses Abraham as an example of faith and works.
musterion
Well-known member
Have you always believed me to be an idiot, if you're really Tambora ?
If not, which of us has changed?
glorydaz
Well-known member
I laid there all night, thinking that exact same thing....after reading her latest post.
glorydaz
Well-known member
You've clearly missed Paul's take on this. He was mortified to learn that his church was being pressured to get circumcised and keep the law. It's fine to pick out a couple of verses and come up with something so simple as hypocricy. The three "so called pillars", Peter, James and John
joining in with the pharisees from their church to try to put Paul's church back under the law. That is why Paul withstood Peter to his face....because he was to be BLAMED. Do you see the word "compellest"? Do you understand the pressure these so called "pillars" were putting on the gentiles to keep the law and be circumcised? I guess you don't.
Gal. 2:11 But when Peter was come to Antioch, I withstood him to the face, because he was to be blamed.
12 For before that certain came from James, he did eat with the Gentiles: but when they were come, he withdrew and separated himself, fearing them which were of the circumcision.
13 And the other Jews dissembled likewise with him; insomuch that Barnabas also was carried away with their dissimulation.
14 But when I saw that they walked not uprightly according to the truth of the gospel, I said unto Peter before them all, If thou, being a Jew, livest after the manner of Gentiles, and not as do the Jews, why compellest thou the Gentiles to live as do the Jews?
I'm still in Soots.
I'm still a lifetime member.
I'm still in the Hall of Fame.
Any mod can verify my IP.
And you can PM me about the joke you and my son played on me.
Or I can keep getting a chuckle of ya'll continuing to be delusional conspiracy nuts.
glorydaz
Well-known member
Yes, it is what you said. Why do you think Paul was the "chosen vessel" sent to the gentiles?
Why was Paul needed at all? You seem to think the 12 were doing so great.
What was that gospel the 12 were preaching, again?
glorydaz
Well-known member
Then, I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:
Why on earth would you think I am removed when I believe it is only through the death and resurrection of the Lord Jesus Christ that anyone could ever be saved unto eternal life?
glorydaz
Well-known member
I'll tell you who is to be blamed for the state of the church today. Those who do not preach the gospel of grace according to Paul. Those who claim the Kingdom gospel is the same as the gospel of grace. What's being taught in churches today? The Kingdom gospel. So when I see people trying to intermingle the gospels as if they were the same, I get angry. People are dying in their sins because they are trying to live by what Jesus and the twelve preached while Jesus walked among us.
Most people who think they're saved don't have a clue what Paul taught. It's, indeed, still a mystery to them.
Instead of joining that false thinking, we should be preaching the truth.
glorydaz
Well-known member
You can't even admit the gospel of the kingdom is not the same as the gospel of grace.
And that's why Paul was scolding those in the church of Galatia.
glorydaz
Well-known member
Do you think Paul was teaching you could lose your salvation?
Do you think Paul was teaching you have to endure to the end to be saved?
Those are the kinds of problems that come when a person thinks Peter and Paul preached the same gospel.
I have on several occasions and even color-coded them differently in a post to differentiate between them.
Israel's promise of a restored earthly kingdom is not the gospel of eternal life.
I don't know how much clearer I can be be.
The one's that don't read correctly can spit and sputter all they want.
Both Peter and Paul taught there would be a restoration of the earthly kingdom of Israel.
Both peter and Paul taught the gospel of eternal life was through the death and resurrection of the Lord Jesus Christ.
glorydaz
Well-known member
The gospel of eternal life - that right there might be adding to the confusion.
It's been very confusing, not just to me.
Where do you see Paul speaking of the kingdom of Israel? I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm just curious.
Where do you see Peter teaching that?
Why?
Being saved IS having eternal life.
Because some are reading into it what is not there.
Perhaps you will believe Paul.
Paul talking with Peter:
Galatians 2:14-16 ESV
(14) But when I saw that their conduct was not in step with the truth of the gospel,
I [that would be Paul] said to Cephas [that would be Peter] before them all, “If you, though a Jew, live like a Gentile and not like a Jew, how can you force the Gentiles to live like Jews?”
(15) We ourselves are Jews by birth [that would be Peter & Paul] and not Gentile sinners;
(16) yet we [that would be Peter & Paul] know that a person is not justified by works of the law but through faith in Jesus Christ, so we also have believed in Christ Jesus, in order to be justified by faith in Christ and not by works of the law, because by works of the law no one will be justified.
glorydaz
Well-known member
The gospel of grace (Paul's gospel) certainly includes eternal life.
But what about the Kingdom believers? Those who confess Jesus is the Son of God?
When their sins are forgiven at the Lord's return, won't they get eternal life?
Not even after they've endured to the end?
How do you think that answers my questions? It's Paul talking the entire time...using the royal "we" since it's questionable that Peter knew anything of justification by faith. Clearly his actions weren't showing it.
This is what I asked,
Where do you see Paul speaking of the kingdom of Israel?
Where do you see Peter teaching that? (the dbr)
I don't see Paul speaking of the kingdom of Israel, nor do I see Peter preaching the death, burial, and resurrection....certainly not in regards to salvation.
Derf
Well-known member
Paul on the kingdom:
Colossians 1:13 (KJV)
Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated [us] into the kingdom of his dear Son:
1 Thessalonians 2:12 (KJV)
That ye would walk worthy of God, who hath called you unto his kingdom and glory.
2 Thessalonians 1:5 (KJV)
[Which is] a manifest token of the righteous judgment of God, that ye may be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which ye also suffer:
2 Timothy 4:1 (KJV)
I charge [thee] therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom;
Peter on DBR:
Acts 2:24 (KJV)
Whom God hath raised up, having loosed the pains of death: because it was not possible that he should be holden of it.
Acts 3:15 (KJV)
And killed the Prince of life, whom God hath raised from the dead; whereof we are witnesses.
Acts 4:10 (KJV)
Be it known unto you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom ye crucified, whom God raised from the dead, [even] by him doth this man stand here before you whole.
Acts 10:42 (KJV) And he commanded us to preach unto the people, and to testify that it is he which was ordained of God [to be] the Judge of quick and dead.
I should add that there are no occurrences of the phrase "kingdom of Israel" in the whole New Testament, at least in the kjv.
Colossians 1:13 (KJV)
Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated [us] into the kingdom of his dear Son:
1 Thessalonians 2:12 (KJV)
That ye would walk worthy of God, who hath called you unto his kingdom and glory.
2 Thessalonians 1:5 (KJV)
[Which is] a manifest token of the righteous judgment of God, that ye may be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which ye also suffer:
2 Timothy 4:1 (KJV)
I charge [thee] therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom;
Peter on DBR:
Acts 2:24 (KJV)
Whom God hath raised up, having loosed the pains of death: because it was not possible that he should be holden of it.
Acts 3:15 (KJV)
And killed the Prince of life, whom God hath raised from the dead; whereof we are witnesses.
Acts 4:10 (KJV)
Be it known unto you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom ye crucified, whom God raised from the dead, [even] by him doth this man stand here before you whole.
Acts 10:42 (KJV) And he commanded us to preach unto the people, and to testify that it is he which was ordained of God [to be] the Judge of quick and dead.
I should add that there are no occurrences of the phrase "kingdom of Israel" in the whole New Testament, at least in the kjv.
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