These are NOT the same gospel

[Idolater]

Nope.

Just Israel.

Obviously, not exclusively.

You're wrong, as usual.

Then there were NOT preaching the DBR as part of the gospel of the kingdom.

That doesn't speak to my point.

Nowhere can you find the 12 being faulted for their preaching the kingdom of God without the DBR. (Hint: the gospel of the kingdom is about the kingdom).

I find Peter's preaching being faulted in Galatians 2: 14 " But when I saw that they walked not uprightly according to the truth of the gospel, I said unto Peter before them all, If thou, being a Jew, livest after the manner of Gentiles, and not as do the Jews, why compellest thou the Gentiles to live as do the Jews?"

 

[glorydaz]

But isn't that different from the Great Commission at the end of that same book of Matthew?

Please give me the scripture before I respond.
I don't believe the Apostles went anywhere preaching their Gospel outside of what they had already been told about not going to the gentiles.

Do you agree that Jesus preached the 'DBR' to the future Apostles before the 'DBR' happened?

Did He tell them He would raise His own body (temple) in three days? Yes, but they didn't know what He was talking about until later.
Besides, preaching the DBR absolutely has to include justification by faith.

John 20:6-9
Then cometh Simon Peter following him, and went into the sepulchre, and seeth the linen clothes lie,
And the napkin, that was about his head, not lying with the linen clothes, but wrapped together in a place by itself.
Then went in also that other disciple, which came first to the sepulchre, and he saw, and believed.
For as yet they knew not the scripture, that he must rise again from the dead.

 

[Right Divider]

Obviously, not exclusively.

The scripture says exclusively. Why do you disagree with scripture?

That doesn't speak to my point.

That's OK, you've ignored my point all along.

I find Peter's preaching being faulted in Galatians 2: 14 " But when I saw that they walked not uprightly according to the truth of the gospel, I said unto Peter before them all, If thou, being a Jew, livest after the manner of Gentiles, and not as do the Jews, why compellest thou the Gentiles to live as do the Jews?"

Which gospel?

Also... read what I WROTE: "being faulted for their preaching the kingdom of God without the DBR."

 

[Right Divider]

Please give me the scripture before I respond.
I don't believe the Apostles went anywhere preaching their Gospel outside of what they had already been told about not going to the gentiles.

Like many, I assume that he believes that the 12 (11 at the time) were sent to gentiles here:

Matt 28:19 (AKJV/PCE)
(28:19) ¶ Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

I don't think that is what it means. I believe that it's talking about Israelite's scattered in the nations.

 

[Derf]

What incorporation are you talking about?

Into the kingdom Paul kept preaching about.

 

[glorydaz]

How the Jews ended up saved seemed to be equally mysterious, since the 12 took so long to grasp the idea of Jesus's DBR.

They weren't saved by grace through faith as members of the body of Christ are, but it's no mystery how they were saved.

They had to keep the commandments, and endure to the end.

Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Acts 3:9 19 Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord.

Peter, for instance, kept the commandments and endured to the end. His sins will be blotted out when the Lord returns.

 

[glorydaz]

Like many, I assume that he believes that the 12 (11 at the time) were sent to gentiles here:

I don't think that is what it means. I believe that it's talking about Israelite's scattered in the nations.

Peter is proof that it's to the Jews in the scattered nations. He is doing what Jesus commanded.

1 Peter 2:12
Having your conversation honest among the Gentiles: that, whereas they speak against you as evildoers, they may by your good works, which they shall behold, glorify God in the day of visitation.

 

[Derf]

They weren't saved by grace through faith as members of the body of Christ are, but it's no mystery how they were saved.

They had to keep the commandments, and endure to the end.

Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Acts 3:9 19 Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord.

Peter, for instance, kept the commandments and endured to the end. His sins will be blotted out when the Lord returns.

Acts 15:11 (KJV) But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they.

 

[Idolater]

Please give me the scripture before I respond.
I don't believe the Apostles went anywhere preaching their Gospel outside of what they had already been told about not going to the gentiles.

RD answered it. And then he proceeded to tell me that it doesn't mean what it seems to mean, because Dispensationalism (which is begging the question; it would be like me saying, No you're wrong, because Catholicism; we're not here to do that).

Did He tell them He would raise His own body (temple) in three days? Yes, but they didn't know what He was talking about until later.

I know. Like, not fully until PAUL persuaded them.

Besides, preaching the DBR absolutely has to include justification by faith.

I don't know what that means, but I don't see that in 1st Corinthians 15:3-4; I see the 'DBR'.

John 20:6-9
Then cometh Simon Peter following him, and went into the sepulchre, and seeth the linen clothes lie,
And the napkin, that was about his head, not lying with the linen clothes, but wrapped together in a place by itself.
Then went in also that other disciple, which came first to the sepulchre, and he saw, and believed.
For as yet they knew not the scripture, that he must rise again from the dead.

Agreed.

 

[glorydaz]

Into the kingdom Paul kept preaching about.

God has a purpose for both groups.

Not all are "incorporated" into the body of Christ.

 

[glorydaz]

Acts 15:11 (KJV) But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they.

Shall be saved. Future tense for the Jews. Present tense for the body.

 

[Idolater]

The scripture says exclusively. Why do you disagree with scripture?

Where's it say that? I can't find that. I'm looking for the words 'only' or 'not anybody else' or something delimiting like that, I can't find that.

That's OK, you've ignored my point all along.

Which gospel?

Well isn't that point? He just got done saying that any other Gospel than the one he preaches (which we all agree is the 'DBR') is not a Gospel at all and is cursed or something like that. And we also learned that there's a "Gospel to the circumcision" and a "Gospel to the uncircumcision" but here Paul just said "THE" Gospel. Like, we're supposed to know, the readers; are supposed to know 'which' "Gospel" he's talking about, right where he's castigating Peter.

Also... read what I WROTE: "being faulted for their preaching the kingdom of God without the DBR."

Oh.

 

[Idolater]

Shall be saved. Future tense for the Jews. Present tense for the body.

We're going in circles. We've already seen where future tense is used for the Body also.

 

[glorydaz]

I find Peter's preaching being faulted in Galatians 2: 14 " But when I saw that they walked not uprightly according to the truth of the gospel, I said unto Peter before them all, If thou, being a Jew, livest after the manner of Gentiles, and not as do the Jews, why compellest thou the Gentiles to live as do the Jews?"

That's because Peter was being a hypocrite...expecting others to keep the law that even he failed to keep.
Paul was merely pointing out the difference between the gospels.

 

[Right Divider]

Where's it say that? I can't find that. I'm looking for the words 'only' or 'not anybody else' or something delimiting like that, I can't find that.

God says who it's with and He ONLY includes Israel.

Jer 31:31-34 (AKJV/PCE)
(31:31) ¶ Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah: (31:32) Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day [that] I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD: (31:33) But this [shall be] the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people. (31:34) And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

 

[Idolater]

God says who it's with and He ONLY includes Israel.

Nonresponsive. "I'm looking for the words 'only' or 'not anybody else' or something delimiting like that, I can't find that." Also "just Israel and Judah" would be good. Anything along those lines. I can't find that in your excerpt, or anywhere else. I can find lots of cryptic references to Gentiles in the Old Testament though, and then we find, later on, that the New Covenant isn't just for Jews and Israelites after all, but it's for Gentiles too. Per Paul.

So that all fits together. No need for MAD.

 

[Idolater]

That's because Peter was being a hypocrite...expecting others to keep the law that even he failed to keep.
Paul was merely pointing out the difference between the gospels.

He held Peter to the standard of "the" Gospel, not "gospels".

 

[Right Divider]

Nonresponsive. "I'm looking for the words 'only' or 'not anybody else' or something delimiting like that, I can't find that." Also "just Israel and Judah" would be good. Anything along those lines. I can't find that in your excerpt, or anywhere else. I can find lots of cryptic references to Gentiles in the Old Testament though, and then we find, later on, that the New Covenant isn't just for Jews and Israelites after all, but it's for Gentiles too. Per Paul.

So that all fits together. No need for MAD.

God tells it CLEARLY in scripture, but your religious blinders to not allow you to see.

 

[Idolater]

God tells it CLEARLY in scripture, but your religious blinders to not allow you to see.

Nonresponsive.

 

[glorydaz]

We're going in circles. We've already seen where future tense is used for the Body also.

Nope. It's only our body we wait for.
We are saved by grace when we believe....IN Christ....seated with Him in heavenly places.
We believe unto righteousness, and our salvation signed sealed and done....awaiting only our spiritual body, as I mentioned.
Most important, our sins have been forgiven now...in the present. We cannot lose our salvation.
We have NOW received the atonement.

The Jews, on the other hand, have to continue to keep the commandments and endure to the end....the coming of the Lord.