These are NOT the same gospel

[glorydaz]

Because man has freewill and can choose.

What, no faith that Jesus can finish the work He started in us?
Filled and sealed by the Holy Spirit unto the day of redemption isn't good enough?

Phil. 1:11 Being filled with the fruits of righteousness, which are by Jesus Christ, unto the glory and praise of God.

Promises like the above are not good enough?
The work He began in us was stopped by a blood bought believer who lost his way?

Lord, if I had to keep myself, I'd give up before I started. Better not preach that gospel to the lost.

I'll guarantee that the doubts you seem to be having are of the enemy.
They are not supported by the promises of God found abundantly in the scripture.

 

[musterion]

Without a doubt in my mind I don't believe any Baal worshippers will be in the new heaven and new earth.
But you can believe there will be if you want to.

Now you're dodging simple, direct questions. You're not the Tambora we used to know.

 

[JudgeRightly]

You mean like Paul does?

1 Corinthians 12:2 (KJV)
Ye know that ye were Gentiles, carried away unto these dumb idols, even as ye were led.

So why can't Peter mean the same thing as Paul? Like so:
Ephesians 2:11 (KJV)
Wherefore remember, that ye [being] in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;

Because those who became proselytes under the New Covenant became part of the Circumcision.

Yet Paul calls those who were formerly Gentiles in the Body of Christ "neither Jew nor Greek."

For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus.For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ.There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus. - Galatians 3:26-28 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Galatians3:26-28&version=NKJV

Things that are different are not the same.

 

[Tambora]

What, no faith that Jesus can finish the work He started in us?
Filled and sealed by the Holy Spirit unto the day of redemption isn't good enough?

Phil. 1:11 Being filled with the fruits of righteousness, which are by Jesus Christ, unto the glory and praise of God.

Promises like the above are not good enough?
The work He began in us was stopped by a blood bought believer who lost his way?

Lord, if I had to keep myself, I'd give up before I started. Better not preach that gospel to the lost.

I'll guarantee that the doubts you seem to be having are of the enemy.
They are not supported by the promises of God found abundantly in the scripture.

First of all I don't have doubts that YHWH is the Most High God, so you can put that accusation in the trash where it belongs.

It is Paul that makes the statement that one can fall from grace which makes Christ of no advantage to them.
Choices has consequences, and Paul is telling them not to return to thinking works of the law merit them anything.

Galatians 5:1-4 ESV​

(1) For freedom Christ has set us free; stand firm therefore, and do not submit again to a yoke of slavery.​

(2) Look: I, Paul, say to you that if you accept circumcision, Christ will be of no advantage to you.​

(3) I testify again to every man who accepts circumcision that he is obligated to keep the whole law.​

(4) You are severed from Christ, you who would be justified by the law; you have fallen away from grace.​

 

[Tambora]

Now you're dodging simple, direct questions. You're not the Tambora we used to know.

Me???
You have not answered whether there will be any Baal worshippers in the new heaven and new earth.
So hold yourself to the same standard you hold others to.

 

[Idolater]

Exactly. Their case is similar the man in Corinth who the church allowed to fellowship with them while they knew he was fornicating with his own mother. Paul said he was to be put out of fellowship until he learned better (which he did). Paul never said the man was unsaved and so needed to hear and believe the saving gospel.

But a Catholic can't possibly understand it in any way other than "saved" people being lost. It was a waste of time me asking the question.

How about you answer the last question I asked you.

 

[Idolater]

Sorry, I went the mass route and never once heard the Gospel of Grace.

You didn't once hear about the death, burial and Resurrection of the Lord Jesus Christ at Mass, even though it's mentioned every single Mass, during the Liturgy of the Eucharist?

 

[Idolater]

So your never-dying soul's destiny depends on whether YOU decide to continue believing. If you ever decide to stop, it's the Lake of Fire for you.

That's salvation not by grace through faith without works, but by the work of your continued perseverance.

Musterion accidentally backing into some sort of Calvinism and sounding like Beloved57 all of a sudden and making faith a work = Priceless

Is this a recent development, or is it what you always believed?

Inquiring minds want to know.

 

[musterion]

Me???
You have not answered whether there will be any Baal worshippers in the new heaven and new earth.
So hold yourself to the same standard you hold others to.

I thought that should go without saying. NO, there won't be.

Now that I've answered your question, please answer mine. Are the views you're now espousing what you always believed, or a new development for you? I don't recall you EVER saying anything close to what you're on about.

 

[Tambora]

I thought that should go without saying. NO, there won't be.

Then anyone that abandons worship of YHWH for another won't be there.
Thanks for agreeing.
So why have you been acting as though what I said is a problem?

Now that I've answered your question, please answer mine. Are the views you're now espousing what you always believed, or a new development for you? I don't recall you EVER saying anything close to what you're on about.

Then you haven't been paying attention.
I have been saying for years that no one has ever been saved unto eternal life apart from grace through faith alone and that it could never be merited by works of the law.
And I have also been saying for years that the pre-trib rapture view isn't the view I lean towards.

 

[Tambora]

So your never-dying soul's destiny depends on whether YOU decide to continue believing. If you ever decide to stop, it's the Lake of Fire for you.

That's salvation not by grace through faith without works, but by the work of your continued perseverance.

Is this a recent development, or is it what you always believed?

It is salvation by faith, not works.
One's works do not produce one's faith.
Are you now saying that your believing faith is a work????

 

[glorydaz]

You didn't once hear about the death, burial and Resurrection of the Lord Jesus Christ at Mass, even though it's mentioned every single Mass, during the Liturgy of the Eucharist?

The mass was in Latin when I went.

 

[glorydaz]

First of all I don't have doubts that YHWH is the Most High God, so you can put that accusation in the trash where it belongs.

I never once accused you of not believing in God.

It is Paul that makes the statement that one can fall from grace which makes Christ of no advantage to them.
Choices has consequences, and Paul is telling them not to return to thinking works of the law merit them anything.

Galatians 5:1-4 ESV​

(1) For freedom Christ has set us free; stand firm therefore, and do not submit again to a yoke of slavery.​

(2) Look: I, Paul, say to you that if you accept circumcision, Christ will be of no advantage to you.​

(3) I testify again to every man who accepts circumcision that he is obligated to keep the whole law.​

(4) You are severed from Christ, you who would be justified by the law; you have fallen away from grace.​

Paul says a lot of things, including this. Paul gave that instruction, because there are some who think they're saved, but they're not.
Don't think for even a minute I'm accusing you of anything. But, it's part of the reason he says for people to avoid going back to the law.

2 Corinthians 13:5
Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?

 

[JudgeRightly]

The mass was in Latin when I went.

That's something I don't get. Why speak a language that no one in the vicinity can understand, including, sometimes, the very person reading/speaking it? It just makes it seem like you're hiding something.

 

[glorydaz]

That's something I don't get. Why speak a language that no one in the vicinity can understand, including, sometimes, the very person reading/speaking it? It just makes it seem like you're hiding something.

Well, that was back in the day. We did see Jesus dying on the cross depicted all around us, but I never heard saved by grace through faith.

 

[glorydaz]

It is salvation by faith, not works.
One's works do not produce one's faith.
Are you now saying that your believing faith is a work????

I'm pretty sure he's saying persevering is a work if your salvation is based upon it.

 

[Tambora]

That's something I don't get. Why speak a language that no one in the vicinity can understand, including, sometimes, the very person reading/speaking it? It just makes it seem like you're hiding something.

I don't get it either.
To preach the gospel to a crowd in a tongue they can't understand is a futile way to preach the gospel.

 

[Tambora]

I'm pretty sure he's saying persevering is a work if your salvation is based upon it.

How is persevering your believing faith a work?

 

[musterion]

Then anyone that abandons worship of YHWH for another won't be there.
Thanks for agreeing.
So why have you been acting as though what I said is a problem?

Because what you have said the past few days doesn't seem to sync up.

On the one hand, you warn that saved people must persevere in worship of YHWH [self-effort] or go to Hell, because they can choose to walk away.

But on the other hand you provide this...

I have been saying for years that no one has ever been saved unto eternal life apart from grace through faith alone and that it could never be merited by works of the law.

There's a big contradiction there, ma'am.

 

[musterion]

How is persevering your believing faith a work?

She just told you.

IF you're saying salvation depends on you continuing in faith (because you can choose to walk away from Christ and be lost) then you don't actually have salvation. That's a form of probation: God presumably would not know what you're going to do, so He must be waiting to see whether you persevere in worshipping Him or turn away from Him.

That's salvation by work, which isn't salvation at all but another gospel.