These are NOT the same gospel

[glorydaz]

You mean like Paul does?

1 Corinthians 12:2 (KJV)
Ye know that ye were Gentiles, carried away unto these dumb idols, even as ye were led.

So why can't Peter mean the same thing as Paul? Like so:
Ephesians 2:11 (KJV)
Wherefore remember, that ye [being] in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;

Not the same at all. Paul is talking about them in the past tense.....since there is neither Jew nor Gentile under grace.

Peter isn't recognizing that fact and continues to call them gentiles.

 

[Tambora]

What happened to cause you to believe what you now say? These are not the beliefs of the old Tambora.

Tambora never believed one who abandons YHWH to worship Baal is going to be accepted.
Do you seriously think there are going to be Baal worshippers in the new heaven and new earth?

 

[glorydaz]

Tambora never believed one who abandons YHWH to worship Baal is going to be accepted.
Do you seriously think there are going to be Baal worshippers in the new heaven and new earth?

Do you seriously think that God is not able to keep those who have been sealed with the Holy Spirit?

 

[musterion]

Tambora never believed one who abandons YHWH to worship Baal is going to be accepted.
Do you seriously think there are going to be Baal worshippers in the new heaven and new earth?

These ex-God worshippers turned Baal worshippers...what gospel did they believe?

 

[Derf]

Not the same at all. Paul is talking about them in the past tense.....since there is neither Jew nor Gentile under grace.

Peter isn't recognizing that fact and continues to call them gentiles.

That's not the kind of gentiles one expects to find in the church.
1 Peter 4:3 (KJV)
For the time past of [our] life may suffice us to have wrought the will of the Gentiles, when we walked in lasciviousness, lusts, excess of wine, revellings, banquetings, and abominable idolatries:

 

[Tambora]

Do you seriously think that God is not able to keep those who have been sealed with the Holy Spirit?

Did God take away freewill?

 

[musterion]

Did God take away freewill?

No, but if the saved can choose to turn away from Christ and become lost again, why don't you?

 

[Tambora]

No,

Right.

but if the saved can choose to turn away from Christ and become lost again,

Then they won't end up in the new heaven and new earth.

why don't you?

Because I haven't chosen to.

 

[Tambora]

These ex-God worshippers turned Baal worshippers...what gospel did they believe?

Pick either of the two you think there are and the answer will be the same.
There will be no Baal worshippers in the new heaven and new earth.

 

[musterion]

Because I haven't chosen to.

So your never-dying soul's destiny depends on whether YOU decide to continue believing. If you ever decide to stop, it's the Lake of Fire for you.

That's salvation not by grace through faith without works, but by the work of your continued perseverance.

Is this a recent development, or is it what you always believed?

 

[musterion]

Pick either of the two you think there are and the answer will be the same.
There will be no Baal worshippers in the new heaven and new earth.

The curse of Galatians 1:8-9 also applies to those preaching gospels other than Paul's.

One thing that's always been true of you, Tam, is you always had guts, possibly more than anybody on this board. Always blunt, never backing down.

So lay it out, here and now. Based on what you say you believe, either we're going to hell, or you are, but one side or the other is wrong, accursed, and lost. Agreed?

 

[glorydaz]

That's not the kind of gentiles one expects to find in the church.
1 Peter 4:3 (KJV)
For the time past of [our] life may suffice us to have wrought the will of the Gentiles, when we walked in lasciviousness, lusts, excess of wine, revellings, banquetings, and abominable idolatries:

They weren't in church.

Peter is speaking to those who have been scattered among the gentiles because of persecution. He's saying they could have started walking in the same idolatries as those people around them. Those people thought it strange that the Jews had not started acting like them and so spoke evil of the Jews.

1 Peter 4:3-4
3 For the time past of our life may suffice us to have wrought the will of the Gentiles, when we walked in lasciviousness, lusts, excess of wine, revellings, banquetings, and abominable idolatries: 4 Wherein they think it strange that ye run not with them to the same excess of riot, speaking evil of you:

 

[glorydaz]

Pick either of the two you think there are and the answer will be the same.
There will be no Baal worshippers in the new heaven and new earth.

This sounds an awful lot like, "Can God make a rock so heavy He can't lift it?"

So why?
Because God is not able to keep those who have come to Him for salvation?

Because being sealed with the Holy Spirit of Promise is not good enough?

 

[glorydaz]

Did God take away freewill?

He went one better.

Philippians 2:13
For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.

 

[Derf]

They weren't in church.

Peter is speaking to those who have been scattered among the gentiles because of persecution. He's saying they could have started walking in the same idolatries as those people around them. Those people thought it strange that the Jews had not started acting like them and so spoke evil of the Jews.

1 Peter 4:3-4
3 For the time past of our life may suffice us to have wrought the will of the Gentiles, when we walked in lasciviousness, lusts, excess of wine, revellings, banquetings, and abominable idolatries: 4 Wherein they think it strange that ye run not with them to the same excess of riot, speaking evil of you:

I don't see how Peter is saying anything different than Paul. They both are saying there's a difference between gentiles and the church.

 

[Tambora]

The curse of Galatians 1:8-9 also applies to those preaching gospels other than Paul's.

One thing that's always been true of you, Tam, is you always had guts, possibly more than anybody on this board. Always blunt, never backing down.

So lay it out, here and now. Based on what you say you believe, either we're going to hell, or you are, but one side or the other is wrong, accursed, and lost. Agreed?

Without a doubt in my mind I don't believe any Baal worshippers will be in the new heaven and new earth.
But you can believe there will be if you want to.

 

[Tambora]

He went one better.

Philippians 2:13
For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.

Everything you do is God's will that you do it?

 

[Tambora]

This sounds an awful lot like, "Can God make a rock so heavy He can't lift it?"

So why?
Because God is not able to keep those who have come to Him for salvation?

Because being sealed with the Holy Spirit of Promise is not good enough?

Because man has freewill and can choose.

 

[glorydaz]

I don't see how Peter is saying anything different than Paul. They both are saying there's a difference between gentiles and the church.

No, Paul says this: There is neither Jew nor Gentile (Greek).....ye are all one in Christ Jesus. These are the believers (church).

Galatians 3:28
There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neithermale nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

Colossians 3:11
Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: but Christ is all, and in all.

He goes on to differentiate between the church of God, and those who are not in the body (Jews and Gentiles).

1 Corinthians 10:32
Give none offence, neither to the Jews, nor to the Gentiles, nor to the church of God:

 

[glorydaz]

Everything you do is God's will that you do it?

I didn't say that, did I?

But I'm confident that He is able to perform what He started in me. My faith is in Jesus Christ....not in myself.

Philippians 1:6

Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ: