Disagree. Truth is often left by the wayside for the touchy-feely especially in the age of relative truth.
Jesus said "I am the way (someone to follow) truth (no other way) and life (all life). He told the Samaritan woman that all must worship the Father in Spirit and Truth, both. So I agree Spirit and Truth, disagree that any form of exuberance is necessarily integrity. I DO believe God is Sovereign and that He will save all He can/will. In that, there are certainly those with less who will be welcomed. How much did the thief on the cross know? :idunno: but I'd speculate not a lot.
I agree, and I don't believe that we have you have a happy clappy love for God, sometimes with God it's a tough love, but there's a difference with being honest and speaking the truth, to condemning others to hell because others don't believe the same as you or I do. I haven't read many of your posts yet, and you said you don't do that so that's good
Jesus told the Samaritan woman the Jews were right (truth). She had a passion implied in the text. Neither alone is good enough. We can judge right and wrong. I can't judge where a man's eternality ends up. I can only point where a path of destruction leads, and where a narrow path of life leads. We are waterers and planters.
Because truth is an indicator and because true worshippers MUST worship in Spirit and Truth. I can tell a person: that direction leads the wrong way, because it does. I, like you, don't do the judging thing. I've not told anyone they are going to hell.
Again I agree, but it has to line up with what Jesus says and with the scriptures, and we are to listen to him and live by him.
Again, I disagree. We know when someone is sinning habitually in unrepentance, for instance. The severity of it, in church among elders, at times leads to disallowing fellowship. Likewise, a diverse doctrine also is adequate grounds for a dismissal in a church setting. In most churches you don't have to agree, but you cannot teach or become a member without adhering to doctrine. On TOL? I think it important to give scripture and defend truth. The 'love' fruit is a little more difficult to convey. I care about a good many here who I don't believe are in Christ, by their own admissions one way or the other. They likely would never guess. There are a few in this thread I try to show genuine patience and concern. I'm not sure if I'm successful and think not often enough, but that's my point. It isn't easy to show that side on TOL and even if you are a champ at it, I'm sure a good number will miss it. Psalmist did better, but he seldom entered doctrinal stances in debate.
But that's my point, some are sinning habitually and look the perfect picture in Christ, preaching the word and doing abominations before God, whilst others who don't believe as we do could have good hearts. Only God knows all our hearts, and It's not that we are to understand the in depth meanings of the scriptures, some people can't take in things like others can, but if we love God with our all, then God will know that. Not understanding all the ins and outs of the scriptures isn't the be all and end all, it's listening to Jesus and taking in the word and loving and obeying God. Once we are doing this, God will open our understanding. Without his spirit we will never truly understand them anyway.
Also, if someone is habitually sinning, then I believe it's right to tell them the truth, but I also believe that we are to be there to help them and not turn them away. We just shouldn't do what they do.
It is interesting and hard to draw conclusion. Peter, He told, would deny Him, yet he was adamant that he wouldn't. I think too, there are contrasts to pay attention to before and after Pentecost (would be a good thread topic).
I've mentioned this before here, when people bring up Peter denying Jesus, I've said that he was a different person after he received the holy spirit, the spirit gives is the power and strength to overcome.
Well, such is scolding the goose for squawking at the gander. It is judging one while doing the very same thing, or so close to it that this is inseparable. You remind me of me, over-analyzing. "Lord is it I?" Seems a good thing. Such helps us empathize better.
There are people who speak with their mouth that they love God but in their lives their love is for themselves, are you saying that this isn't so? I've seen this in people around me during my life, saying they believe in God, going to church, looking the part yet having no care or thought for others. Thinking that they're saved and ok. I'm not saying this about anyone in particular, but that's the problem with the once saved always saved gospel. Many think that out doesn't matter what they do, they're going to heaven regardless. This is contrary to the scriptures and I'll get you the verses if you want me to? I'm not saying this is true of all those who believe this way, there is good and bad everywhere. But we can't think of ourselves as saved, do nothing for God and live to please ourselves and think we're walking into heaven, that's contrary the scriptures.
If we love God, we'll love others, and of we love others then we won't hurt them thus in this way, we will obey the commandments of God. Because if his spirit and his love is within us then he will help us overcome the hardness of our flesh. And you will know those who are true to God by their fruits.
Good sentiment. We know this isn't possible, but I believe longing for perfection and redemption of the planet and working hard on love is exactly right. We are called to love our enemies. I think wanting for them, what they don't want for themselves is a good thing, but it is love rejected. Don't let that ever callous you. Keep right on loving. Say a prayer for me tonight to do the same while you are at it.
Love is the key
Well, that's the conveyance from those against the Trinitarian doctrine. The only thing I can do is point out problems. There are problems with 1) education 2) pride 3) overt cult influence 4) past hurts as a hurdle 5) Spiritually unable If I try and touch any one of them, it goes like this:
Education: "you need to read more of the bible, or pay attention to the creeds." Response: "YOU do!"
Pride: "You listen a lot less than you talk." "YOU do!"
Poorly taught: "You have been taught by those who don't really know this stuff." "YOU have!"
Spiritually without ability. I don't think there is really anything you can tell someone without the Spirit. Imho, this is where they meet God and it is wholly between them and God. We could probably encourage the meeting but how does one go about setting up an appointment with God? My tack it to pray for it, since it is a matter of their need for coming to Him.
I'm not sure if any of this meets anything of need or if your post was more rhetorical than invitation for response, so such that it is...
In Him -Lon
I'm not a Trinitarian, but I don't condemn those who don't believe as I do to hell. To me, there's too much in the Bible that shows me that Jesus isn't God. And I have to believe what I see Jesus saying, and he clearly says that God is his God so I believe him. God knows who has heard the truth and he will judge all of us, that's not for me to do through the thoughts of my flesh, our flesh has to go so that God can judge through his people by his word in this lifetime, then one day we must all stand before him and account for what we've done. I believe we are being tried and tested, and as we overcome we become stronger the spirit. So if we are to overcome then we are to be doers of the word and live it out, and the spirit will give us the strength once we start to deny ourselves. I'm only explaining the way I believe, I'm not getting at you, I can't judge another as I'm a sinner myself
And as I said in another thread, those with the spirit will know others who have the spirit, regardless of their denomination, those who have the spirit know it when they hear the voice of Christ in another.
Today I was thinking about dust, and how when it covers something beautiful then it hides the beauty. And I thought of our flesh which is the dust. When we love to please the flesh, people can't see the beauty of Christ within us. They just see the dust. Our fleshly ways need to go so that Christ can live through us and others see him in us. And as we die his life grows within our hearts and he is shown in our lives and we will love and care for others as he did.
