The Trinity

[keypurr]

Act 5:40 And to him they agreed: and when they had called the apostles, and beaten them, they commanded that they should not speak in the name of Jesus, and let them go.
Act 5:41 And they departed from the presence of the council, rejoicing that they were counted worthy to suffer shame for his name.
Act 5:42 And daily in the temple, and in every house, they ceased not to teach and preach Jesus Christ.

 

[patrick jane]

Act 5:40 And to him they agreed: and when they had called the apostles, and beaten them, they commanded that they should not speak in the name of Jesus, and let them go.
Act 5:41 And they departed from the presence of the council, rejoicing that they were counted worthy to suffer shame for his name.
Act 5:42 And daily in the temple, and in every house, they ceased not to teach and preach Jesus Christ.

Your false doctrines need attention -

 

[Lon]

Your just being self righteous Lon. You could not defend your faith against him.

Correction Will not, not could not. I will report bringing sacred topics to the gutter every time, regardless of how I feel at the time.

Let me tell you a few things about you (hopefully a few of these others who get banned will pay attention). Please don't respond directly to me, or defend (you've nothing to defend). This is here simply if a cultist happens along and can learn something about propriety and why you don't get infractions or bans. It has a little to do with my reasons for ignoring them also, because they tend to be for the same reason as TOL rules. IOW, while there is some correction aimed at you regarding why you particularly are on my ignore list, you are there for completely different reasons than the rest.

1) You sometimes lie, purposefully or ignorantly. That's one reason why you are on ignore. For instance, you know well my capability but you also know I will not drag any discussion of our Lord Jesus Christ through the gutter and I will report it every time. Some things are sacred and scriptures actually tell us not to drag the sacred through the profane. Do you know where?

2) Even though you convey mistruth on a personal level and make allowances for the poor-poor behavior of your fellow Arians and Unit-arians (unwisely and misplaced), you do listen and you do read. I find you repeating things I've told you in the past. That leads me to this number two: You are on ignore simply because I wanted you to think about things I've told you in the past, especially the scriptures to my neglect or anything I've said, It is a theological reason, for me. God's word does not return void. It accomplishes His tasks.

3) Repetition. Ties into #2 but you are on ignore simply because "We've had this conversation before." It means there is no point to it. You either listen or you ignore. That's between you and God.


Now let me give you reasons others are reported and are on ignore:
1) More arrogant, though you certainly are that as well. They however lift themselves up so high, the Lord Jesus Christ has to take a backseat. Oddly, all of them are so focused on self, they all say "you used no scriptures." I don't recall you saying that to me (if you had, you never did again).
2) They bring Holy discussion into the gutter. That's why I started the "PervertJohn 20:28 Jesus Christ: Lord and God. ed?" thread. I will not go there. It doesn't belong in holy discussion. Period. Now look at your next line:

He is much wiser than you and all your degrees.

Good grief. Feces on the wall is anywise wiser, let alone much? :nono: You aren't dealing in reality. Worse? You have allegiance to unholy men rather than keeping it to God. You are on ignore for that too. You next say I'm on a polo pony. Righteous demands allegiance. You have yet to learn that lesson about God and holiness. In the days of Moses, righteous men had to choose, even against friends and family.

Your still on that Polo Pony that you had a few years ago. Your education has been slanted and you are not interested in seeing the other side of the coin.

You have no credentials, Keypurr. You have admitted your entire family is triune. Them too? They are blind? lain: There comes a time, when standing alone, and NOBODY comes to your side, that you have to wonder, or at least should. Your polo pony is to give allegiance the men rather than God.
Let me prove that: You know the rules. You work at keeping your word and not going against TOL rules, many of them based on scripture. Yet, nearly every last one of your fellows have received justified infraction. Now here is the proof: You come to your friends' defense HOWEVER you yourself are unwilling to do the same infractions. Why? Integrity, except when it comes to your loyalties. They are misplaced. THIS is what infractions are about. They are never about arguing the content, but rather dragging the content through the gutter and without integrity, breaking rules one said they'd abide by. Not all infractions are over spiritual matters, but these ALL have been. You will never get an infraction for the same thing, Keypurr. Don't lie about it. You know right from wrong. You prove it every day. Your problem is allegiance to men than God when these occur. Anything else is a lame, inept, conspiracy theory.

You ran like a child to the office because someone will not agree with you.

Your word against mine. Unfortunately you can't read hearts. You do this to me a lot. It is called false accusation and it is a sin against God.

Your the one who should sit in the corner and shut up, as you told daqq to do.

You are entitled to your opinion. The reason there are so many of us Trinitarians is because scriptures allow for nothing else. You go ahead and be deluded as you prefer. It is this kind of posturing and fingers in your ears that lends to keeping you on ignore. You are too prone to accusation without foundation and are very much alone in the world ( I realize there are a million of you, not very many).

With all your degree and High IQ (?) you still have a lot to learn.

Agreed....

I suggest you open your mind as to what could be and maybe the Lord will give you some truth.

Start with your own family. Being Triune is the only tenable position.

Your spreading the perversion of truth that has dwelled in the church for many years. Your not displaying the love of Christ when someone disputes your thoughts. That's a shame for then you lose.

Well, this too is why you are on ignore. It is simply scripture. There is no meeting of the ways on this. I've given the exact same advice to you.

 

[keypurr]

No need to rebuttal you because you have me on ignore. Your pushing the same poison that the fourth century church gave. Do you think the world is flat also? When are you going to stop looking down on folks that did not enjoy the opportunity that you had when you got your degrees. Most of us are or were hard working folks who tried to give our kids what you got. My IQ of 134 was wasted because I came from a poor family. But God has been good to me, I got a nice family, a roof over my head and food in my belly. I also have an understanding of God and his son that you may never have. You need to get off your high horse and see how other folks think and why they think that way.

I wish you well Lon but please keep me on ignore.

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[patrick jane]

No need to rebuttal you because you have me on ignore. Your pushing the same poison that the fourth century church gave. Do you think the world is flat also? When are you going to stop looking down on folks that did not enjoy the opportunity that you had when you got your degrees. Most of us are or were hard working folks who tried to give our kids what you got. My IQ of 134 was wasted because I came from a poor family. But God has been good to me, I got a nice family, a roof over my head and food in my belly. I also have an understanding of God and his son that you may never have. You need to get off your high horse and see how other folks think and why they think that way.

I wish you well Lon but please keep me on ignore.

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I should ignore you too but I have to point out your false doctrines and blasphemy - it needs to be exposed

 

[keypurr]

I should ignore you too but I have to point out your false doctrines and blasphemy - it needs to be exposed

Then do your best to show me my errors. Its your duty as a Christian. No one has been able to convince me that my thoughts are wrong yet. You can be the first. Its like getting a Gold medal in REO.

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[patrick jane]

Then do your best to show me my errors. Its your duty as a Christian. No one has been able to convince me that my thoughts are wrong yet. You can be the first. Its like getting a Gold medal in REO.

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:chuckle: - We've tried, you ignore the clear teachings and scripture

 

[keypurr]

:chuckle: - We've tried, you ignore the clear teachings and scripture

If it was clear we would not be debating it. You see it in the tradition you were taught. I see it as it was meant to be seen.

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[patrick jane]

If it was clear we would not be debating it. You see it in the tradition you were taught. I see it as it was meant to be seen.

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What makes you so sure that you are right, the majority disagree. The vast majority -

 

[keypurr]

Many are call but FEW are chosen. Every one needs to make their choice, I choose Christ, most choose church.

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[Lon]

No need to rebuttal you because you have me on ignore.

True.

You[']r[e] pushing the same poison that the fourth century church gave.

You are embracing it more since being on TOL than you realize. No, you aren't triune, but quit slamming where your own theology is moving toward, and not away from.

Do you think the world is flat also?

:sigh:

When are you going to stop looking down on folks that did not enjoy the opportunity that you had when you got your degrees.

Er, you JUST said mine was 'poison.' lain: Taking umbrage is looking down my nose? Or that it should stop?

Most of us are or were hard working folks who tried to give our kids what you got. My IQ of 134 was wasted because I came from a poor family. But God has been good to me, I got a nice family, a roof over my head and food in my belly.

Don't sell it short. We use intelligence every day.

I also have an understanding of God and his son that you may never have.

Naw, I think I've a good handle on what your understanding. What you and I don't have is each other's relationship with Him.

You need to get off your high horse and see how other folks think and why they think that way.

:nono: I, like you, have a history of creeds behind me. These are the accepted interpretation of scripture. I better have 4 things going in against them:
1) A good reason
2) A calling that God specifically gives me, thus the where-with-all to challenge, as with Martin Luther. This will, from then on until now, likely require a few degrees behind one's name (barring and only barring the Lord Jesus Christ, but He does have a lot of credentials after His name).
3) Be an insider. Jesus was a Jew. Martin Luther was a Catholic.
4) Be evident. That is, it will make sense to God's people. I've been to church. I know God's people are there. Deluded? Your version of history is as bad as any hyper-exclusionist (including hyper-Calvinists). I simply believe God does Salvation better than the fringes think. Christianity is still a minority in the world. Even if the whole world turned Christian, we'd still number-wise, have been in the minority. Of the 60-70% of Christians in the U.S. I'm not sure how many of them are saved lovers of Christ and God.
All this to say, I think by the #'s God does better than you think He does. It is a strong belief because we are supposed to number the grains of the seashore sands, even if we remain the minority number. It is just what makes scriptural sense (another thread topic though). I am convinced if any group goes against the creeds, the number will be significant among churches, not a pittance because I truly believe God sovereign. Therefore, it'd take a lot more than any Unitarian has or could produce to date. The evidence given from scripture cannot sway where the Gospel of John is concerned. The ONLY way, even with your family, would about have to be intervention from God.

I wish you well Lon but please keep me on ignore.

I will.

Many are call but FEW are chosen.

Yet when it comes to fruit, you'll take feces over pride? Do you realize you make 'excuses' for your divergence?

Every one needs to make their choice, I choose Christ

The more time you spend with Him, the more triune I'm convinced you will be. You may not realize, but you have more affinity to the triune position than when you first came here. That's a good thing.

most choose church.

:nono: You are "more" sympathetic to the triune position, not less, despite your cognitive dissonance.

 

[Rosenritter]

No I didn't, there is a huge gap between the man Jesus and the spirit that God sent to dwell in him. The spirit, (logos, word) became flesh. Jesus is not the logos, the spirit is. This is what the churches do not teach, this is the key to understanding who Christ is.

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Funny how that guy whom you say was not Jesus answered to that name...

 

[keypurr]

True.


You are embracing it more since being on TOL than you realize. No, you aren't triune, but quit slamming where your own theology is moving toward, and not away from.


:sigh:
Er, you JUST said mine was 'poison.' lain: Taking umbrage is looking down my nose? Or that it should stop?


Don't sell it short. We use intelligence every day.

Naw, I think I've a good handle on what your understanding. What you and I don't have is each other's relationship with Him.

:nono: I, like you, have a history of creeds behind me. These are the accepted interpretation of scripture. I better have 4 things going in against them:
1) A good reason
2) A calling that God specifically gives me, thus the where-with-all to challenge, as with Martin Luther. This will, from then on until now, likely require a few degrees behind one's name (barring and only barring the Lord Jesus Christ, but He does have a lot of credentials after His name).
3) Be an insider. Jesus was a Jew. Martin Luther was a Catholic.
4) Be evident. That is, it will make sense to God's people. I've been to church. I know God's people are there. Deluded? Your version of history is as bad as any hyper-exclusionist (including hyper-Calvinists). I simply believe God does Salvation better than the fringes think. Christianity is still a minority in the world. Even if the whole world turned Christian, we'd still number-wise, have been in the minority. Of the 60-70% of Christians in the U.S. I'm not sure how many of them are saved lovers of Christ and God.
All this to say, I think by the #'s God does better than you think He does. It is a strong belief because we are supposed to number the grains of the seashore sands, even if we remain the minority number. It is just what makes scriptural sense (another thread topic though). I am convinced if any group goes against the creeds, the number will be significant among churches, not a pittance because I truly believe God sovereign. Therefore, it'd take a lot more than any Unitarian has or could produce to date. The evidence given from scripture cannot sway where the Gospel of John is concerned. The ONLY way, even with your family, would about have to be intervention from God.
I will.

Yet when it comes to fruit, you'll take feces over pride? Do you realize you make 'excuses' for your divergence?


The more time you spend with Him, the more triune I'm convinced you will be. You may not realize, but you have more affinity to the triune position than when you first came here. That's a good thing.

:nono: You are "more" sympathetic to the triune position, not less, despite your cognitive dissonance.

Me triune?
You really do not understand my thoughts Lon.

I see the creeds as man made. They are not from above. I admire your devotion to your church but I question if it is the Church Christ founded. My argument is not with the people but the misinformation that has been given to them. I see only the Father as God and his created Son as our Lord. I love them both and it bothers me that their light has been obscured by mankind over the years. I have no doubt that your love for them is like mine but I wonder if you really know them.

Go in peace, I pray that someday you will think of my words.

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[keypurr]

Funny how that guy whom you say was not Jesus answered to that name...

Understand that the express image, the spirit son, spoke through the body of Jesus. Once you see that the true son sent was the spirit that dwelled in Jesus Heb 10:5 will make more sense to you. God needed a pure sinless body that he could trust to hold his express image in. Jesus is the savior, the Lamb of God, the human sacrifice, he became the Christ at his anointing when the Dove (Spirit) went into him. Acts 10:38. It was the spirit that led him into the wilderness. It was this spirit that God created all through. It was this spirit that became flesh, and it was this spirit that is the son of man.

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[Lon]

Me triune?
You really do not understand my thoughts Lon.

Not what I said. You don't understand mine. I do understand yours. You've become a different kind of Unitarian since you've been here. The language you use is more triune than it used to be. It no-wise means you are a Trinitarian. Pay attention, this is one of the reasons why it is hard to convince me of anything, when the guy I'm talking to hasn't listened really, to what I said. How could you do better with scripture? :idunno:

I see the creeds as man made.

Doesn't matter. What matters is if they did a good job or not AND that they are the comparative standard. Again, God set up parameters for correcting error. It isn't the way Unitarians have tried to date. When God wants to correct doctrine, it will be corrected and it will not be with confusion and will have a clear mark of His hand. Until then, the creeds will stand.

They are not from above. I

Who says? Martin Luther? :nono: John Wesley? :nono: Charles Spurgeon? :nono: Billy Graham? :nono: Keypurr? yep. Your platform is silent and alone in a desolate park. God will move and shake when He so chooses. Worse? Scripture, as far as the majority of us, me, Luther, Augustine, FF. Bruce, and the shoulders of the whole church, adamantly disagree with you. Have any of them? Respect any of them? I have no Arian/Unitarian theologian that are even note-worthy to respect.

I admire your devotion to your church but I question if it is the Church Christ founded.

True of your family too? Are they going to hell? No love for the Great God and Lord Jesus Christ?

My argument is not with the people but the misinformation that has been given to them.

Sure. I had heard of the Trinity as a youth BUT it never made sense to me. It wasn't until I studied scripture and compared it to the creeds. "Did they make sense?" After a good amount of study, I have to answer "yes, they do." Frankly, every thing else is unscriptural.
It isn't just me that believes so.

I see only the Father as God and his created Son as our Lord. I love them both and it bothers me that their light has been obscured by mankind over the years.

I don't believe it is possible. Men hate the light BUT the light shines in the darkness and it cannot hide. You have God in an awkward and powerless position with your theology. God's light cannot be obscured.

I have no doubt that your love for them is like mine but I wonder if you really know them.

Which is why I have hope for you and pray for you.

Go in peace, I pray that someday you will think of my words.

I have. Again, I have to say it: what is given as Unitarian doctrine is scripturally untenable. It cannot hold up under scripture inspection.

 

[Bright Raven]

Me triune?
You really do not understand my thoughts Lon.

I see the creeds as man made. They are not from above. I admire your devotion to your church but I question if it is the Church Christ founded. My argument is not with the people but the misinformation that has been given to them. I see only the Father as God and his created Son as our Lord. I love them both and it bothers me that their light has been obscured by mankind over the years. I have no doubt that your love for them is like mine but I wonder if you really know them.

Go in peace, I pray that someday you will think of my words.

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The Son is begotten not made!

 

[marhig]

What makes you so sure that you are right, the majority disagree. The vast majority -

I wonder if they said the same to Noah?

 

[Lon]

I wonder if they said the same to Noah?

I don't believe so. They knew they had no love for God.

 

[marhig]

I don't believe so. They knew they had no love for God.

Those who truly love God live by his will, we can say a lot with our mouths, but our actions show our true love for God, are we hearers only? Or are we doers of the word?

Some people judge others because they don't believe as the vast majority do, yet they could love God with all their hearts and worship the father in spirit and an truth, God is love and he looks at the heart. Just because the vast majority think they are right, it doesn't mean that they are right.

People are too quick to judge others, even telling them they are going to hell because they don't believe as they do. How can we, being human, know the depths of a persons heart? A person we see as right, saved and godly could be rotten inside before God, yet someone that others call a heretic could have their heart right before God. We're not God, were just flesh and none of us can judge others in this way, there is only one righteous judge, and that's God. Once we become judgemental we put ourselves in the place of God.

The disciples didn't think like that, they said is it I Lord, they wanted to know if they were the ones at fault. We've got enough wrong within ourselves, we've got no right to go and judge others in this way. The word of God does the judging, and God knows who's heard the truth.

The trouble is many like a lie back and believe in a do nothing gospel whilst condemning others. A gospel that suits the flesh and not God. But that's not the gospel of Jesus. The gospel of Jesus is a doing gospel and not just a hearing one only!

I don't want anyone to go to hell, I hope for everyone to get to heaven. People are too quick to condemn others whilst thinking that they themselves are holier than thou and saved and going to heaven whilst others who don't believe in the same way as them aren't. That's being self righteous and God will judge them!

 

[Rosenritter]

Understand that the express image, the spirit son, spoke through the body of Jesus. Once you see that the true son sent was the spirit that dwelled in Jesus Heb 10:5 will make more sense to you. God needed a pure sinless body that he could trust to hold his express image in. Jesus is the savior, the Lamb of God, the human sacrifice, he became the Christ at his anointing when the Dove (Spirit) went into him. Acts 10:38. It was the spirit that led him into the wilderness. It was this spirit that God created all through. It was this spirit that became flesh, and it was this spirit that is the son of man.

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And God had something else do this because he wasn't willing to do it himself?

1 John 3:16 KJV
Hereby perceive we the love of God , because he laid down his life for us: and we ought to lay down our lives for the brethren.

Sorry Keypurr. My God has greater love than what you are imagining. Even that "spirit son" you imagine didn't lay down his own life but sacrificed someone else while possessing him.

Mark 10:45 KJV
For even the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many.

Your version loves less and gave up someone else's life.