The Heretics Message to the World:Be Baptized to be Saved! (HOF thread)

[Elena Marie]

Carri--

Sounds to me like you've been reading your Bible and doing a fine job of it. I venture to guess you'll never convince some people of their error, but you've made an admirable effort.

God bless you and yours!

 

[carri]

Freak--

Jesus can do anything He chooses. He can save whomever he wants. HE'S GOD! But if he tells me He's going to judge me by my deeds then that tells me my salvation hinges on whether or not I obey Him. Faith is essential and so are the deeds that prove the faith!

Just out of curiosity, were you also a rebellious teenager?

Carri

 

[Freak]

Carri-

I believe what Paul said in Romans 10:13-Everyone who calls upon the Name of the Lord will be saved.

Now do you believe this or not?

No, I was not a rebellious teenager. In fact, I was a pretty good kid. Were you?

 

[carri]

Yes, Freak, I do believe what that scripture says, but I also believe the scriptures that talk about our being judged according to our deeds. Do you? You never seem to address the scriptures concerning this issue when they are pointed out to you; you just keep pointing out more scriptures that support your view and asking if people believe them. Don't you think it's necessary to take the scriptures in their entirety (I am pretty sure I just misspelled that word--please excuse me) to see what God wants from us?

Please, please, please. I am begging you to please address the scriptures I have pointed out.

Thanks,
Carri

ps Yes, I was a good kid, too. I didn't turn into a monster until I hit adulthood

 

[carri]

Freak--

And another thing: You said "you continue to believe Jesus (who is eternal God) is unable to bring Salvation and that somehow He has to use water." Jesus can save anyone He chooses (like the thief on the cross). But, for the rest of us, He chooses--not "has to"--to command us to be dunked in water. If he wanted, he could command us to be baptised in chocolate milk! And it wouldn't make any difference even if He told us we had to lob off our right earlobe. The point is, He can command whatever He chooses--not has to--for us to do and we must obey Him if we love Him.

Carri

 

[tralon]

Carri-When a person sincerely trusts in Christ for their salvation they ARE(present tense) saved.God does not give eternal life to us until the time we screw up bigtime, or else it wouldn't really be eternal life, but CONDITIONAL life for good behavior. Kind of like an ex con on parole. God forgives eternally, justifys eternally, makes us rightous eternally and has saved us eternally.

 

[Ian Day]

Carri (& all water-baptism-is-necessary folk)

No-one is teaching that the disobedient will be saved.

Simple question:
Do you see the difference between obeying Christ because we are saved, and obeying Christ to be saved ????????

 

[JustAChristian]

Choose Life In Christ Jesus.

Choose Life In Christ Jesus.

Carri-

Just keep Jesus as your salvation not water, not works, not anything. Just embrace Jesus as your salvation.

For some odd reason you continue to believe Jesus (who is eternal God) is unable to bring Salvation and that somehow He has to use water. This is absurd!

Freak:
Can't you understand that if you want Jesus you are going to have to obey his commandments? (Heb. 5:8-9). You just can't have a relationship with him without doing what he has said. Faith without obedience is a vain faith (Rom. 1:5; Matthew 7 21-29). You don't want to obey Jesus and you don't want anyone elso to obey him either. I pray that the people that read your post and the post of those that hold your views will stop to consider why Jesus required a life of service and obedience rather than the life you choose to live. If we truly love God we will obey him (John 14:15). Obedience inherits heaven (Matt. 7:21-23). When we do the will of God, we are obeying him and not man (Acts 5:29). But, to fosake the obedience of the Father opens the door to eternal punishment (2 Thess. 1:7-9).

Nadab and Abihu thought that God would be pleased with their sacrifice, but they were wrong. They worshipped but it was vain worship (Lev. 10:1-2). God has a pattern in salvation and service. Find them and do them.

Think of the results of obedience. We have the right to the tree of life (Rev. 22:16). We have the promise of eternal life (Heb. 5:9). We have the assurance of salvation (1 John 2:3-4,17). However, the results of being disobedient brings the wrath of God on us (Col. 3:5-6). There is the fearfulness of the promise of vengteance and flaming fire (2 Thess. 1:8). There is the assurance of the lake of fire and brimstone (Rev. 21:7-8). Choose life in Christ Jesus though obedient faith!

JustAChristian

 

[Freak]

JustaChristian,

It was clear you made a distinction between the two of us once again. You believe "obedience inherits heaven" I believe Jesus inherits heaven. Everybody can make a choice here. Am I being heretical or is this poster JaC? I ask everyone to believe as the Bible states in Romans 10:13 to call upon the Name of the Lord to be saved. While JaC calls people to obedience I call people to just Jesus.

 

[carri]

Freak--

You still haven't responded to the scriptures I pointed out. You have no credibility when you refuse to acknowledge scriptures that show there is more than just faith involved in salvation.

Please explain to me Rev3:1-3. "To the angel of the church in Sardis write: These are the words of him who holds the seven spirits of God and the seven stars. I know your deeds; you have a reputation of being alive, but you are dead. Wake up! Strengthen what remains and is about to die, for I have not found your deeds complete in the sight of my God. Remember, therefore, what you have received and heard; obey it and repent. But if you do not wake up, I will come like a thief, and you will not know at what time I will come to you."

And Matt16:27 "For the Son of Man is going to come in His Father's glory with His angels, and then He will reward each person according to what he has done."

From Ian and Tralon, also, I would welcome direct responses concerning these particular scriptures.

Thanks, Carri

 

[carri]

Ian:

You said "No-one is teaching that the disobedient will be saved."
By saying that ALL that is required for salvation is to have faith and call upon the name of the Lord, you leave out obediance. I ask you also to respond the the same verses I posted to Freak.

Carri

 

[Ian Day]

Carri,

Any chance of a simple yes/no answer to a simple question?????????

My posting was:
No-one is teaching that the disobedient will be saved.

Simple question:
Do you see the difference between obeying Christ because we are saved, and obeying Christ to be saved ????????

Instead you say I leave out obedience:

Ian:

You said "No-one is teaching that the disobedient will be saved."
By saying that ALL that is required for salvation is to have faith and call upon the name of the Lord, you leave out obediance. I ask you also to respond the the same verses I posted to Freak.

Carri

 

[carri]

Ian--

I see the difference. You contend that a person will obey because he is saved. Are you saying that if he won't obey it's because he isn't really saved?

Carri

 

[Ian Day]

Carri,

There is no reason whatsoever to consider the disobedient to be saved.

This is the great problem of "decisionist" evangelism. To say "I believe" & sign one's name in John 3:16 is not heart salvation. THough some such are saved, as can be seen from their subsequent obedience to Christ.

Baptising such "new converts" as the first step of obedience does not save them. It confirms them in actual unbelief.

 

[carri]

Ian--

Please explain what you mean by this statement: "It confirms them in actual unbelief." Baptism isn't the first step of obediance, either. Repenting is.

Again, if a person refuses to obey the commands of Christ does that mean the person was never really saved to begin with?

Carri

 

[Ian Day]

Carri,

Yes.

Baptising immediately those who are actually unsaved gives them a false hope. "I am a baptised Christian, saved for all eternity."

But if their conduct does not show their "faith" they have grounds for self confidence in thier baptism. Such have NEVER been baptised INTO CHRIST, NEVER been born again from above by the Spirit.

Baptism does not save such a person. Repentance & faith have to be genuine for baptism to be significant.

We baptise believers, but water baptism does not save. A true heart faith is necessary. Just as in the Old Testament heart circumcision was required.

Lev 26:41 And [that] I also have walked contrary unto them, and have brought them into the land of their enemies; if then their uncircumcised hearts be humbled, and they then accept of the punishment of their iniquity: .........

Jer 9:26 .......... all the house of Israel [are] uncircumcised in the heart.

Act 7:51 Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers [did], so [do] ye.


I hope you can see the parallel with baptism.

 

[carri]

Ian--

Since at any point in a person's life one can refuse to obey Christ, even after they have accepted them, how does a person know at what point he is really saved? How can I say I am saved when 5 years down the road I could turn my back on God; no one knows what tomorrow will bring, so how do we know for sure?

Carri

 

[Ian Day]

Carri,

THe Holy Spirit of God who has given you life & faith in your Saviour will keep you.

Look at my "signature".

Read on from Romans 6 to learn more of your resurrection life:

Rom 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
10 And if Christ [be] in you, the body [is] dead because of sin; but the Spirit [is] life because of righteousness.
11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.
12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.
13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.
14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.
15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.
16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:
17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with [him], that we may be also glorified together.
18 For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time [are] not worthy [to be compared] with the glory which shall be revealed in us.

 

[tralon]

Carri-Do you know most Christians over the span of a lifetime become inactive in church, prayer and bible study? A lifetime is a long time. People backslide for many reasons, but we ALL do, but in a greater or lesser extent. And the reasons vary as well. But does this mean the blessed Holy Spirit has forsaken us? No, that could never be. For we are sealed with him til the day of redemption. He will keep urging us back to serve the Lord some time later in our life. For Jesus will never leave or forsake you. He IS the great shepherd and he watches all his sheep.Even we who go astray.He brings us back by the convicting of the Holy Spirit.When you see a backslider in everyday life, don't judge that person as an apostate, but as a Christian sheep who has left the fold. Our Father will deal with him. He will NEVER find peace apart from serving Jesus. Just pray for wayward Christians and help to lead them back to the fold. Someday you may leave the fold and someone will lead you back as well.

 

[Melody]

Re: The Heretics Message to the World:Be Baptized to be Saved!

Re: The Heretics Message to the World:Be Baptized to be Saved!

Forgive me for intruding but some deliberate misuse of the scripture has been demonstrated here and I must interfere.

Some unbelievers once asked the disciples: "What must I do to be saved?"

They replied: Believe in the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved (Acts 16:31).

Act 2:37 Now when they heard [this], they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men [and] brethren, what shall we do?
Act 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Act 2:39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, [even] as many as the Lord our God shall call.
Act 2:40 And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.
Act 2:41 Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added [unto them] about three thousand souls.

Note that Peter instructed them to save themselves!

How? Through obedience to repentence and baptism in "the name of Jesus Christ"

One attains eternal life (Salvation) thru simple belief in the person of Jesus. We see this in the words of Jesus when He said: "Everyone who believes in Him may have eternal life" (John 3:15).

Another time when addressing the people of His day, Jesus was asked: "What must we do to do the works God requires?", Jesus answered, "The work of God is this: to believe in the One He has sent" (John 6:28-29).

Note no mention of baptism.

Jesus made it clear O2bewise: I AM THE GATE; WHOEVER ENTERS THROUGH ME WILL BE SAVED (John 10:9).

Again no mentione of baptism, apparently to o2bewise Jesus must have misspoken here.

Jesus commanded baptism.

Mat 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

And taught baptism.

Mar 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

And taught his disciples to baptize others.

Jhn 3:22 After these things came Jesus and his disciples into the land of Judaea; and there he tarried with them, and baptized.
Jhn 3:23 And John also was baptizing in Aenon near to Salim, because there was much water there: and they came, and were baptized.
Jhn 3:26 And they came unto John, and said unto him, Rabbi, he that was with thee beyond Jordan, to whom thou barest witness, behold, the same baptizeth, and all [men] come to him.

Jhn 4:1 When therefore the Lord knew how the Pharisees had heard that Jesus made and baptized more disciples than John,
Jhn 4:2 (Though Jesus himself baptized not, but his disciples,)

May I remind that selective obedience is not obedience at all.

Some unbelievers once asked the disciples: "What must I do to be saved?"

They replied: Believe in the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved (Acts 16:31).

Note again no mention of baptism. Just belief in the Lord Jesus.

I think for me and my household we will listen to Jesus then o2bewise and his wicked ways.

I think you neglected to read the rest of the story.


Act 16:31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.
Act 16:32 And they spake unto him the word of the Lord, and to all that were in his house.
Act 16:33 And he took them the same hour of the night, and washed [their] stripes; and was baptized, he and all his, straightway.

2Ti 3:16 All scripture [is] given by inspiration of God, and [is] profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: