The Heretics Message to the World:Be Baptized to be Saved! (HOF thread)

[Letsargue]

Before we can intelligently discuss what various the NT books say, it is necessary to understand the current state of ancient manuscripts. Anyone read Bruce Metzger, Philip Comfort, David Barrat, and Brad Erhman? Our current English translations are not presently substantially based upon the oldest manuscripts, despite their claims to the contrary. Now that we have the Dead Sea Scrolls, we can study those for the best understanding of the Tanakh. Also, many of Paul's epistles are written by someone other than Paul at a much later date. 2 Peter seems to have been written by someone other than Peter at a much later date also; therefore one cannot say that "Peter approved of Paul's writings as 'Scripture'." There is an English translation being made right now in England by Stephen Walch based upon the oldest extant manuscripts; you can read it at: thewaytoyahuwah
There is a word-for-word analysis of the Greek of Galatians called: questioningpaul by Craig Winn. What did Yahushua say was properly the Word of Yahuwah? Yahushua said: "If you want to understand Me, scrutinize the Torah, Prophets, and Psalms." Of whom did Yahushua warn Peter who would arrive as a "wolf in sheep's clothing" and lead Peter "to a place/position he would not want to go?" Another suggestion: study the Scriptures from the beginning, from Genesis forward; then you will be able to evaluate the NT with greater perspective.

There is nothing in the Scriptures that say anything like that. The Scriptures of God say what they say. – You can believe anything some Scholar or Phd. writes in a book, and they all write something different. It just depends on what false church supports it. The Catholics don’t support what the Scholars of the Baptist church support, or the churches of Christ. God is not divided within itself; all division is from without the Scriptures. – Sorry! – I’ll take what GOD says in the Scriptures. – If the Scriptures are in error, then there cannot be anyone saved through those errors. – So believe what you want to believe that is not found in the Scriptures as is.

Paul – 110710

 

[Letsargue]

Genesis 1:6-8 KJV – “And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters. 7- And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so. 8- And God called the firmament Heaven”. ----- This is the Baptism of the Father and the Son together. As we know them.

John 17:5 KJV – “And now, O Father, GLORIFY THOU ME with thine own self WITH THE GLORY WHICH I HAD WITH THEE BEFORE THE WORLD WAS”. ----- Jesus is speaking here of that time of the Baptism of the two.

Who is liken to my God. – 070811

 

[Letsargue]

O2bewise, please prove me wrong. I would be more than willing to retract my earlier posts.

Is baptism necessary for salvation?

Can one be saved if not baptized in water?

Is baptism a part of the Gospel message?

I'll be looking forward to your response.

I’m sorry I overlooked the ending of this one also!!

This is the response to the end of the Thread, thus far - relating back to my last Post here. This is referring to the “Baptism” of the Son, and the Father, Both Together. The Son is Raised in Glory with His Father before the world was!! – Please read and try to see what the world cannot see. -- Proverbs says it very clearly if anyone truly wants to SEE.

Proverbs 8:22-30 KJV – “The LORD possessed me in the beginning of his way, before his works of old.
23 I was set up from everlasting, from the beginning, or ever the earth was.
24 When there were no depths, I was brought forth; when there were no fountains abounding with water.
25 Before the mountains were settled, before the hills was I brought forth:
26 While as yet he had not made the earth, nor the fields, nor the highest part of the dust of the world.
27 When he prepared the heavens, I was there: when he set a compass upon the face of the depth:
28 When he established the clouds above: when he strengthened the fountains of the deep:
29 When he gave to the sea his decree , that the waters should not pass his commandment: when he appointed the foundations of the earth:
30 Then I was by him, as one brought up with him: and I was daily his delight, rejoicing always before him”.

Paul – 092112

 

[Kevin]

test

 

[Kevin]

Hello all,

Many years ago, I participated in this thread.

There were things that I said in that thread that I have come to realize are worded poorly, lacking, and can be very, very misleading. I haven't read the entire thing (it's HUGE) and there might be some things I said that are flat out wrong (just acknowledging the possibility), I'm not perfect.

For example when I was asked 'At what point will you have enough good works to be saved,' I replied 'When you have obeyed all of the works commanded of us.' While I believe that to be true, I was missing something at the time. What I should have mentioned were the two great commandments, which involve loving God and loving others. If we don't obey them, there is no way to make it to heaven. Everything we are to do fall under those commandments. There is no quota of good works to do, such as helping the poor, feeding the hungry, visiting people, etc. All of those fall under the two great commandments and is what we are to obey throughout our lives to the end.

Our works are evidence of a true faith and love for God and others. It is that true faith and love for God and others that saves us.

No amount of works that I could ever, ever do can save me - it's impossible. What will save me is the grace of God and my faith through Jesus Christ and His work, and most importantly, my love for him and others.

Don't get me wrong, the Bible makes it quite clear that the disobedient will not inherit the kingdom of God. Obedience is absolutely necessary - again, the disobedient will not inherit the kingdom of God. But our obedience must be inspired from love, otherwise our obedience is useless. God does have an expectation for us to behave in love, which does no harm, and if we stray from it and continue in a lifestyle that is disobedient (sin), there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins and we are in very real danger of hell.

I know it's been many, many years (since 2001 in fact) since I've participated in this thread. I don't know if there is anyone present that was here when I posted in that thread, but I wanted to make a public apology to all and God if I mislead one single person into thinking that we could earn our salvation by our works. We do works not to earn salvation (because you can't earn it), but because they please him when inspired by love. They show God that our love and faith is real.

Believe that Jesus is the son of God and follow him. Not everybody who says to him 'Lord, Lord' will enter the kingdom of heaven. As Jesus said himself, if you love him, keep his commandments, and baptism is one of them. That's how one is saved. I don't believe one needs to be baptized because they somehow need to do it to earn their salvation, I believe it needs to be done because Jesus commanded it of every new convert for the remission of sins. Who are we to question him?

All of that being said, I don't intend to get into another huge debate, I'm simply not up to it right now. I just felt the need to say this.

 

[evangelist]

Hello all,

Many years ago, I participated in this thread.

There were things that I said in that thread that I have come to realize are worded poorly, lacking, and can be very, very misleading. I haven't read the entire thing (it's HUGE) and there might be some things I said that are flat out wrong (just acknowledging the possibility), I'm not perfect.

For example when I was asked 'At what point will you have enough good works to be saved,' I replied 'When you have obeyed all of the works commanded of us.' While I believe that to be true, I was missing something at the time. What I should have mentioned were the two great commandments, which involve loving God and loving others. If we don't obey them, there is no way to make it to heaven. Everything we are to do fall under those commandments. There is no quota of good works to do, such as helping the poor, feeding the hungry, visiting people, etc. All of those fall under the two great commandments and is what we are to obey throughout our lives to the end.

Our works are evidence of a true faith and love for God and others. It is that true faith and love for God and others that saves us.

No amount of works that I could ever, ever do can save me - it's impossible. What will save me is the grace of God and my faith through Jesus Christ and His work, and most importantly, my love for him and others.

Don't get me wrong, the Bible makes it quite clear that the disobedient will not inherit the kingdom of God. Obedience is absolutely necessary - again, the disobedient will not inherit the kingdom of God. But our obedience must be inspired from love, otherwise our obedience is useless. God does have an expectation for us to behave in love, which does no harm, and if we stray from it and continue in a lifestyle that is disobedient (sin), there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins and we are in very real danger of hell.

I know it's been many, many years (since 2001 in fact) since I've participated in this thread. I don't know if there is anyone present that was here when I posted in that thread, but I wanted to make a public apology to all and God if I mislead one single person into thinking that we could earn our salvation by our works. We do works not to earn salvation (because you can't earn it), but because they please him when inspired by love. They show God that our love and faith is real.

Believe that Jesus is the son of God and follow him. Not everybody who says to him 'Lord, Lord' will enter the kingdom of heaven. As Jesus said himself, if you love him, keep his commandments, and baptism is one of them. That's how one is saved. I don't believe one needs to be baptized because they somehow need to do it to earn their salvation, I believe it needs to be done because Jesus commanded it of every new convert for the remission of sins. Who are we to question him?

All of that being said, I don't intend to get into another huge debate, I'm simply not up to it right now. I just felt the need to say this.

I am glad you have grown a lot sence that time with me and freak!
WWWOOOWW!
praise the Lord!