JAC
My replies in bold
My previous points in italic
My replies in bold
My previous points in italic
The blind beggar did NOTHING but cry for mercy:
Luke 18:42 And Jesus said unto him, Receive thy sight: thy faith hath saved thee.
Welcome back. I thought maybe you'd bailed out after my last post. By the way, are you going to answer the point about sowing to the spirit? Everlasting life comes after sowing to the spirit (Gal. 6:8). Anyway, welcome back!
Paul has earlier shown that they received the Spirit by the hearing of faith. THe whole force of Galatians is that faith in Christ is all-important, for we receive the Holy Spirit by faith, & by faith we bear the fruit of the Spirit .... love, joy, peace, etc. When you refer to John 3:16, you will read that the believer has everlasting life, and John 5 teaches that He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.
Everlasting life begins with faith in Christ. The ultimate everlasting life is of course the life of glory in the world to come. We have everlasting life in this life, as believers, but we still have the hope of everlasting life with Christ in glory.
Was the blind man saved from his sins? The Greek word her is "soozon" and also means "to be made whole". Why did't the translators of the KJV use "made you whole" as they did in nine other occasions. (Strong's). Think there was some bias translation here? Maybe! Weak argument, Ian, shame on you.
JustAChristian
Look at the CLEANSING of the 10 lepers. (Luke 17) All were cleansed kathariso . Only the Samaritan was saved sesoken.
Sozo is translated "save" 93 times, & "made whole" only 9. Is there some bias in your own weak argument ???
Are you trying to argue that those Jesus healed were unsaved ??
Don't you know that the first "sozo" in Scripture is:
Mat 1:21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins
Acts 13:39 And by him all that believe are justified from all things, from which ye could not be justified by the law of Moses.
Is believe here faith only? What about repentance? Were these believers justified if they failed to repent? How could this be? Is it possible for "believe" to also include the commend to repent? Did you read my argument on a synecdoche that I gave FreaK? Check it out.
It is impossible to believe savingly without repentance. The command is repent & believe the Gospel. Repent & be converted. Repent & turn to God.
No-one here is trying to say that faith of itself saves. It has to be faith IN CHRIST.
I did read your argument.
Rom 3:28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.
I'll amen that, but you have to show that justification by faith does not include the requirement to repent, confess Christ as God's son, and to be baptized for the remission of sins, and then the requirement to "...sow to the Spirit" (Gal. 6:9).
JustAChristian
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Gal 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
See my remarks above.
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2Ti 3:15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.
Through faith. Is that a work on our part? (John 6:29). If it is, then it is not by faith alone. I see Paul telling Timothy that salvations comes after an action on our part, don't you?
The Jews were concerned to keep the minutiae of the Law. The whole point of Jesus teaching is that good works cannot save. Only he saves, by his redeeming sacrifice. Faith is not a work, but a renunciation of self-righteous works.
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Dare you argue that to be justified is not to be saved ???
Don't think I have.
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What works need to be added to faith in order to be justified ??
The work of God (John 6:29).
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Paul clearly sees that to be justified is to be righteous in God's sight.
No argument here!!
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James' understanding of justified is to prove one's faith by obedience. Faith which cannot be demonstrated by works is of course dead, & Paul would agree. (Romans 6)
Amen!
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James is not contradicting Paul (or Freak ) he is saying that if you have saving faith it will show.
How will it show?
If you refuse baptism, or continue in sin, then don't expect people to see your faith. BUT there is a vital difference between justification by faith in CHrist, apart from any works (for at the moment of regeneration & salvation no good works have been done) and the living out of that new life in Christ.
When did you "...sow to the Spirit" and reap eternal life? (Gal. 6:9).
When I repented & trusted Jesus as Saviour my eternal life began. (John 5) Now I sow to the Spirit & expect to receive the fullness of that eternal life in glory.
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As Paul eloquently writes:
Eph 2:4 But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,
5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved
6 And hath raised [us] up together, and made [us] sit together in heavenly [places] in Christ Jesus:
7 That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in [his] kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
That what I have been saying all along. The question that you want answer is can you prove by the New Testament that belief or faith does not include works of God that we are called to do before we can be eternally saved?
John 3, John 5.
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There is an emphasis in the Scriptures on spritiual life - new birth, quickening of the dead, etc. THe moment of salvation is at that point of spiritual life, when we realise our desperate state of sin, and that Jesus Christ is our only hope of salvation. At that point we are said to repent & be converted or repent & turn to God. The new life is obedient to God, but the obedience does not save. The only obedience which saves is the obedience of Christ.
What is this "obedience of Christ"? Does it require us to hear the gospel? (Rom. 10:17). Does it require us to repent (Luke 13:3). Does it require us to confess Christ as God Son? (Acts 8:37 KJV; Matthew 10:32). Does this include the obedience of immersion into Christ? (Romans 6:5; Gal. 3:26-27). Is Jesus Christ going to forgive us of sin before we have come to him in the obedience of His commandments?m (John 14:15).
Rom 5:19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.
The truth is that sinners CANNOT obey Christ. Only born-from above-by-the Spirit believers can obey. Our baptism & works of obedience & love are the result of saving faith, they are not saving works.
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:down: A bit like Carri's recipes posted to date. 