The Heretics Message to the World:Be Baptized to be Saved! (HOF thread)

[carri]

Ian--

What do you mean here: "Baptising immediately those who are actually unsaved"? Are you actually admitting that a person is unsaved before they are baptised?

Who's to judge whether a person is ready for baptism or not? Would you actually withhold baptism from someone because you don't think they are saved yet? If someone comes to you and says they want to be baptised for the remission of their sins, would you actually say "no" because you don't believe they are saved and that the act would give them false hope?

"I am a baptised Christian, saved for all eternity." Only people who believe "once saved, always saved" would believe this.

"But if their conduct does not show their "faith" they have grounds for self confidence in thier baptism." Don't you mean they have NO grounds for self confidence in their baptism?

"Baptism does not save such a person." I agree. Baptism in and of itself does not save. Belief in Christ as our Lord and Savior, repentance, baptism for the remission of sin, and a life lived following Christ and fulfilling His commands leads to salvation.

Carri

 

[JustAChristian]

Being In Christ.

Being In Christ.

Carri,

There is no reason whatsoever to consider the disobedient to be saved.

This is the great problem of "decisionist" evangelism. To say "I believe" & sign one's name in John 3:16 is not heart salvation. THough some such are saved, as can be seen from their subsequent obedience to Christ.

Baptising such "new converts" as the first step of obedience does not save them. It confirms them in actual unbelief.

Ian,
Pardon my "butting in" but how can you close a post "In Christ" when you don't believe that? To be in Christ is to be baptized into Christ: "For as many of you as were baptized into Christ did put on Christ" (Galatians 3:27. You don't believe you are baptized into Christ. You believe that you are in Christ before you are baptized. Think about it!

JustAChristian

 

[Ian Day]

Re: Being In Christ.

Re: Being In Christ.

JAC, Carri,

[Ian]
This is the great problem of "decisionist" evangelism. To say "I believe" & sign one's name in John 3:16 is not heart salvation. THough some such are saved, as can be seen from their subsequent obedience to Christ.

Baptising such "new converts" as the first step of obedience does not save them. It confirms them in actual unbelief.

[JAC]
Pardon my "butting in" but how can you close a post "In Christ" when you don't believe that? To be in Christ is to be baptized into Christ: "For as many of you as were baptized into Christ did put on Christ" (Galatians 3:27. You don't believe you are baptized into Christ. You believe that you are in Christ before you are baptized. Think about it!

No physical act of itself is salvation. We need to believe IN HEART before confession. Confession is physical, belief is SPIRITUAL. cf James 2. True faith produces the evidence of works. A confession of faith in the emotional atmosphere of the Gospel service has as yet produced no evidence.

Immediate baptism may be the baptism of a new-born Christian, in which case the evidence will follow. The confession of faith may be spurious. (Billy Graham expects most of his new converts to fall away. THose who don't justify his methods.)

The danger is that there will be lots of baptised unbelievers (like the paedobaptists produce) who think they are saved, and mistakenly trust in the OSAS doctrine. THey are not OS; they are NS - Not Saved.

How are believers baptised into Christ?

1 Cor. 12:12 For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also [is] Christ.
13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether [we be] Jews or Gentiles, whether [we be] bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

If we are not baptised INTO CHRIST by the Holy Spirit then water does NOTHING.

Water baptism of itself does not save & does not put the believer into CHrist. Only the Holy Spirit does that.

Water baptism follows belief, and new believers should be baptised in water for all that it signifies.

 

[Ian Day]

Carri

My replies:

Ian--

What do you mean here: "Baptising immediately those who are actually unsaved"? Are you actually admitting that a person is unsaved before they are baptised?

No. I am referring to those whose confession of faith is not genuine.

Who's to judge whether a person is ready for baptism or not?
The church elders.
Would you actually withhold baptism from someone because you don't think they are saved yet? Yes If someone comes to you and says they want to be baptised for the remission of their sins, would you actually say "no" because you don't believe they are saved and that the act would give them false hope?
Yes

"I am a baptised Christian, saved for all eternity." Only people who believe "once saved, always saved" would believe this.
That's on another forum. Those by one Spirit .... baptized into one body are born of the Spirit, and have eternal life. THese will live a true Christian life, bearing the fruit of the Spiritand are OSAS.

"But if their conduct does not show their "faith" they have grounds for self confidence in thier baptism." Don't you mean they have NO grounds for self confidence in their baptism?
The heart is deceitful. There are many baptised unbelievers around who think that they are Christians. With a FALSE self-confidence.

"Baptism does not save such a person." I agree. Baptism in and of itself does not save. Belief in Christ as our Lord and Savior, repentance, baptism for the remission of sin, and a life lived following Christ and fulfilling His commands leads to salvation.
Are you saying that no living believer is actually saved ?? We have to wait for death (or even the resurrection.)

While ultimately our salvation is the perfect resurrection life, we have to consider baptised believers walking with God as saved. Now.

 

[carri]

Ian--

After the shock of discovering Tralon's beliefs yesterday, I should not be surprised at what I read from you this morning. But I am.

Who's to judge whether a person is ready for baptism or not?
The church elders.
Would you actually withhold baptism from someone because you don't think they are saved yet? Yes If someone comes to you and says they want to be baptised for the remission of their sins, would you actually say "no" because you don't believe they are saved and that the act would give them false hope?
Yes

Just where in scripture does it say that a church elder--a mere man--is to judge the heart of a man to decide whether or not he really believes and should be baptized? That's between the believer and God!

And where does anyone get off preventing anyone who confesses Christ and repents from obeying a command of Christ?
Luke 17:1 "Jesus said to his disciples: 'Things that cause people to sin are bound to come, but woe to that person through which they come. It would be better for him to be thrown into the sea with a millstone tied around his neck than for him to cause one of these little ones to sin.'" I really think this applies to people who prevent others from doing the commands of Christ. Without baptism, the believer's sins are not remissed and he does not have the gift of the Holy Spirit. If his heart is not right when he is baptized, that is between him and God. Hopefully later in his life he will realize his heart wasn't right and he will seek the Truth and can then be truly baptized. But no mere man has the right to prevent someone from fulfilling a command of Christ, especially when the fulfilling the command is necessary for salvation!

There are many examples of people hearing the Word, believing, and being baptized that same day. Show me one, where the person doing the baptizing made the believer wait so he could see whether his fruits proved his belief before he would baptize him. I looked and looked and couldn't find a single one.

As for whether or not we are actually "saved" before judgement or are just looking forward to our salvation, I'm not really done figuring that one out myself. But I do know that "once saved, always saved" is only true once you've been judged and actually enter the pearly gates--basically when it's too late to turn away from God.

Carri

 

[Apollos]

By the revelation of the HS one is saved...

By the revelation of the HS one is saved...

Although I am traveling, and am lucky enough to have computer access for right now.

In 1 Corinthians 12:13 we learn that "by one Spirit" or by the direction of the Spirit, we are "baptized into Christ".

Please note that at this very writing of 1 COrinthians Paul was water baptizing the Ephesians in Acts 19. Just prior in Acts 18 he had been baptizing the Corinthians!!

This is the same information, through God's word, that everyone has and that everyone must follow to be "in Christ". Nothing else in scripture is said to PUT US IN CHRIST other than WATER BAPTISM. Belief will not do it, repentance will not, and neither will confession.

All of these are necessary, but it is at the POINT of water baptism that the sinner is baptized INTO Christ. Those with a bias and false teaching toward what water baptism DOES and what water baptism is FOR will not see this simple fact.

The lost are baptized INTO Christ!!

Man is a physical being with physical faculties. It is through his physical abilities that he will believe in the spiritual things that have been revealed to us by the HS. Believing is NOT spiritual - no more than repentance or confession or water baptism. But God uses the physical to bring one INTO Christ. The end result of God's plan is spiritual salvation !

 

[JustAChristian]

Re: Re: Being In Christ.

Re: Re: Being In Christ.

JAC, Carri,

No physical act of itself is salvation. We need to believe IN HEART before confession. Confession is physical, belief is SPIRITUAL. cf James 2. True faith produces the evidence of works. A confession of faith in the emotional atmosphere of the Gospel service has as yet produced no evidence.

Immediate baptism may be the baptism of a new-born Christian, in which case the evidence will follow. The confession of faith may be spurious. (Billy Graham expects most of his new converts to fall away. THose who don't justify his methods.)

The danger is that there will be lots of baptised unbelievers (like the paedobaptists produce) who think they are saved, and mistakenly trust in the OSAS doctrine. THey are not OS; they are NS - Not Saved.

How are believers baptised into Christ?

1 Cor. 12:12 For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also [is] Christ.
13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether [we be] Jews or Gentiles, whether [we be] bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

If we are not baptised INTO CHRIST by the Holy Spirit then water does NOTHING.

Water baptism of itself does not save & does not put the believer into CHrist. Only the Holy Spirit does that.

Water baptism follows belief, and new believers should be baptised in water for all that it signifies.

Ian,
I was going to comment on your verse "...for by one Spirit were we all baptized into one body" but I believe that Apollo has posted on that subject and has done a wonderful job. You have to place things in context all the time. The Spirit is the agent not the element. That will make a great difference. In Ephesians 4, the one baptism is the "element" not the agent. There is one baptism to obey (Mark 16:16) and that is immersion in water for the remission of sins (Acts 22:16 ; 1 Peter 3:21) in order to get into the spiritual body of Christ, the church (Eph 1:22-23; Gal. 1:18; Gal. 3:26-27). Holy Spirit baptism was passive whereas water baptism is active. It is something we are to do. This should help in you understanding.

JustAChristian

 

[JustAChristian]

Re: By the revelation of the HS one is saved...

Re: By the revelation of the HS one is saved...

Although I am traveling, and am lucky enough to have computer access for right now.

In 1 Corinthians 12:13 we learn that "by one Spirit" or by the direction of the Spirit, we are "baptized into Christ".

Please note that at this very writing of 1 COrinthians Paul was water baptizing the Ephesians in Acts 19. Just prior in Acts 18 he had been baptizing the Corinthians!!

This is the same information, through God's word, that everyone has and that everyone must follow to be "in Christ". Nothing else in scripture is said to PUT US IN CHRIST other than WATER BAPTISM. Belief will not do it, repentance will not, and neither will confession.

All of these are necessary, but it is at the POINT of water baptism that the sinner is baptized INTO Christ. Those with a bias and false teaching toward what water baptism DOES and what water baptism is FOR will not see this simple fact.

The lost are baptized INTO Christ!!

Man is a physical being with physical faculties. It is through his physical abilities that he will believe in the spiritual things that have been revealed to us by the HS. Believing is NOT spiritual - no more than repentance or confession or water baptism. But God uses the physical to bring one INTO Christ. The end result of God's plan is spiritual salvation !

Apollo,
You did a good post and I referenced it to Ian Day.

JustAChristian

 

[Ian Day]

Sorry to take a time to get back.

Bob Hill came in on the Roots of Mid-Acts Dispensationalism forum, & I have been trying to understand him , & see his errors.

 

[Ian Day]

Carri,

Ian--

Just where in scripture does it say that a church elder--a mere man--is to judge the heart of a man to decide whether or not he really believes and should be baptized? That's between the believer and God!

There is no question of church elders judging the heart. They are commanded to judge by the fruit:
Mat 3:7 But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees come to his baptism, he said unto them, O generation of vipers, who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come?
8 Bring forth therefore fruits meet for repentance:

When they heard that, they were not baptised:
Mat 21:25 The baptism of John, whence was it? from heaven, or of men? And they reasoned with themselves, saying, If we shall say, From heaven; he will say unto us, Why did ye not then believe him?
26 But if we shall say, Of men; we fear the people; for all hold John as a prophet.



And where does anyone get off preventing anyone who confesses Christ and repents from obeying a command of Christ?
....................
But no mere man has the right to prevent someone from fulfilling a command of Christ, especially when the fulfilling the command is necessary for salvation!

Which is the greater sin?
To baptise one who shows no spiritual fruit, no evidence of being saved;
or to say, "I don't think your life is consistent with that of a true believer. Deal with your sins; show the fruit of repentance; and come & be baptised."
The first is likely to continue in sin, trusting that grace will abound.
The second is likely to examine himself, whether he be in the faith and by his zeal prove himself.

No. A person's salvation does not depend on whether I have baptised him or withheld baptism, but on the genuineness of his repentance, and his new life IN CHRIST.

To ascribe the power of granting eternal life to a "mere man" by water baptism is ridiculous. Plenty of godly believers have been cast out by church authorities. And plenty of sinners have been baptised.

You are in danger of thinking like some Moslems, who, believing that a virgin goes straight to paradise, will "marry" her to a prison guard before execution.

 

[Ian Day]

JAC, Apollos,

Adding to Scripture to prove your case is not a practice commended by John in Revelation :down:

[Apollos]
In 1 Corinthians 12:13 we learn that "by one Spirit" or by the direction of the Spirit, we are "baptized into Christ".

[Scripture]
1Cr 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether [we be] Jews or Gentiles, whether [we be] bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

Note that the Spirit is doing the baptising. Compare John 3, where those born again (from above) are born of the Spirit.

The believer is passive, in submitting to baptism. The baptizer baptises the repentant sinner, baptism speaking of washing, remission, cleansing, death to sin, new life in Christ, membership of the body of Christ, etc. The Spirit baptises into Christ. The saving work is God's.

What you have consistently failed to prove is that the water itself actually washes away or remits the sin, thus saving the person, who without & before such baptism was in fact unsaved, & a lost sinner.

There is an essential difference between one saying "I am a sinner who believes Jesus died for my sin, therefore I am saved" but who refuses baptism & association with the church, and one who acknowledges his sin & by baptism is added to the church.

It is the blood of Christ that cleanses from all sin, not the water.
1Jo 1:7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.
8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us [our] sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

 

[JustAChristian]

Ian,

A person is changed in mind before he or she is scripturally baptized, but is this after a "trial period"? No, I don't believe so. Lets look at the Samaterians: "But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women." Acts 8:12. Was there a testing period to see if they would bring forth fruits meet for repentance? What about the Philippian jailor and his family? " And he took them the same hour of the night, and washed their stripes; and was baptized, he and all his, straightway " Acts 16:33. Paul didn't tell them "...you have got to go through a period of testing to see if you are worthy to be a part of the church" When the Pharisees and scribes came to the baptism of John, they were not coming to be baptized. They felt themselve above that. John is chiding them for their lack of faith in the prophets. He is telling them to go back to their houses and get themselves correct in attitude. Only then can one be correctly immersed. I affirm that the Samaterian, the jailor, Cornelius and Paul himself all had the correct attitude before bapism, but it did not come from trials or periods of testing -- your so-called "bringing forth fruits".

JustAChristian

 

[c.moore]

Hello to those who believe H2o baptism saves-

Mark 16 :16 has believeth two times mention in the verse for one important reason that belief is the key and the root and the rights to be saveD. I got baptized like mark 16:16 after I got SAVED past tence by my belief. The minute I put my faith to work by repenting and believing I was instantly (SAVED) and my name was written in the Lambs book of life, I became adopted into the kingdom of God family through belief.
Ac:16:30: And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved?
Ac:16:31: And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

Eph:2:8: For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Eph:2:9: Not of works, lest any man should boast.

As soon as I plead the Blood of Jesus and repented with my whole heart I am a full christian blameless of any past sins, and I can walk right in the HOLYS of HOLYS before any water baptism because Eph:2:6: And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:

Baptism by water is just symbolic or a sign of you being buried in Christ. It like the Lord supper which for instance catholic think it is really Jesus body you eat and his real blood you drink and this is so important for the catholics but it is false doctrine and the same for the mormons they believe so strongly on water baptism
that they think they can dunk under water for the dead so they can gain salvation. They believe they must work for thier salvation and they only know if they are saved after they have been judge. I see everyone who believe in this water baptism saves could make good perfect mormons.
I think I said enough for now I`ll be back with more scriptures.

peace

 

[JustAChristian]

Well, I Guess That Lets Me Out!

Well, I Guess That Lets Me Out!

Hello to those who believe H2o baptism saves-

Mark 16 :16 has believeth two times mention in the verse for one important reason that belief is the key and the root and the rights to be saveD. I got baptized like mark 16:16 after I got SAVED past tence by my belief. The minute I put my faith to work by repenting and believing I was instantly (SAVED) and my name was written in the Lambs book of life, I became adopted into the kingdom of God family through belief.
Ac:16:30: And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved?
Ac:16:31: And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

Eph:2:8: For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Eph:2:9: Not of works, lest any man should boast.

As soon as I plead the Blood of Jesus and repented with my whole heart I am a full christian blameless of any past sins, and I can walk right in the HOLYS of HOLYS before any water baptism because Eph:2:6: And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:

Baptism by water is just symbolic or a sign of you being buried in Christ. It like the Lord supper which for instance catholic think it is really Jesus body you eat and his real blood you drink and this is so important for the catholics but it is false doctrine and the same for the mormons they believe so strongly on water baptism
that they think they can dunk under water for the dead so they can gain salvation. They believe they must work for thier salvation and they only know if they are saved after they have been judge. I see everyone who believe in this water baptism saves could make good perfect mormons.
I think I said enough for now I`ll be back with more scriptures.

peace

C. Moore,

I don't know a single brother or sister in the faith that believes that water saves you. Yet, all the "faith onlies" want to make us out to be that way so they can try to justify their UNGODLY CONCLUSION that faith alone saves. The Bible emphatically says that faith only will not justify a person (James 2:24). The Gospel is the power of God unto salvation. It tells us that much more is expected of us than faith. Salvation come at the end of our faith (1 Peter 1:9). We have to hear the gospel, believe it and repent of sins. There must be a public confession of Jesus Christ a God's Son. We must be immersed in Christ (Gal. 3:26-27). -- Where does the Bible mention getting into the spiritual body of Christ, the church, except by being obedient to baptism? Its not there. Jesus Christ will save the church that is His body (Eph 5:23). His church will be delivered up to the Father ( 1 Cor 15:24). Unless one has been baptized and added to the church (Acts 2:38; 2:47), he will not be eternally saved.

Lets "break bread" over truth and not speculation. I trust you are able to do that. An inspired writer said, I didn't originate it: "He that belives and is baptized shall be saved (Mark 16:16).

JustAChristian

 

[carri]

Ian--

There is no question of church elders judging the heart. They are commanded to judge by the fruit:

Although I am curious where that is listed in their job description (I didn't realize John was a church elder) I think Just A Christian's comments on this one concerning baptism couldn't be said any better, so I won't bother.

Which is the greater sin?

Hmmm...I thought sin was sin, and all sin separates us from God. Since we are all supposed to work out our own salvation with fear and trembling, wouldn't it be wise to keep yourself spotless and let the other person worry about where his heart is? I'm not saying you shouldn't councel a person, but if someone requests baptism I don't think it would be wise to withhold something Christ demands.

A person's salvation does not depend on whether I have baptised him or withheld baptism, but on the genuineness of his repentance, and his new life IN CHRIST

Yeah, it's just too bad that he doesn't have a new life IN CHRIST until he is baptized INTO Christ. The problem here is that some of us believe we have to obey Christ to order to be IN CHRIST and some of us don't.

To ascribe the power of granting eternal life to a "mere man" by water baptism is ridiculous

Again, the water itself does not save. However, the withholding of the water baptism condemns, whether it be by the believer refusing baptism or an elder refusing to baptize.

Carri

 

[c.moore]

Quote by JustAchritain

I don't know a single brother or sister in the faith that believes that water saves you. Yet, all the "faith onlies" want to make us out to be that way so they can try to justify their UNGODLY CONCLUSION that faith alone saves. The Bible emphatically says that faith only will not justify a person (James 2:24).

Quote by c.moore

Jas:2:24: Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.
But there is no baptism mention in this verse.

JOC let check out what the bible says about work for eternal salvation life.

Ro:4:4: Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.
Ro:4:5: But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

Ro:9:11: (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth

M't:24:22: And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the (elect's) sake those days shall be shortened.
You see the word elected not good works or waiting to Judgement day, or faith works for salvation.


Eph:1:4: According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

Ro:8:28: And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.


Ro:4:4: Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.
Ro:4:5: But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.


Ro:3:24: Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
Ro:3:25: Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
Ro:3:26: To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.
Ro:3:27: Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.
Ro:3:28: Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.


The Gospel is the power of God unto salvation. It tells us that much more is expected of us than faith. Salvation come at the end of our faith (1 Peter 1:9). We have to hear the gospel, believe it and repent of sins. There must be a public confession of Jesus Christ a God's Son. We must be immersed in Christ (Gal. 3:26-27). -- Where does the Bible mention getting into the spiritual body of Christ, the church, except by being obedient to baptism?

Quote by c.moore
Let see JOC,
Joh:17:23: I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.
Joh:14:20: At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.

Ro:8:10: And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.

Quote by JOC
Its not there. Jesus Christ will save the church that is His body (Eph 5:23). His church will be delivered up to the Father ( 1 Cor 15:24). Unless one has been baptized and added to the church (Acts 2:38; 2:47), he will not be eternally saved.

Quote by c.moore
Ac:2:38: Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Sorry but I don`t see those words he will not be eternally saved in this verse.
Let me check out your next verse.

Ac:2:47: Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved.

Sorry but I don`t see those words he will not be eternally saved in this verse or anything about eternal life.confused:

peace

 

[carri]

C. Moore--

I don't see that this was identified as a quote by someone else, but it does not fit in with what you have been posting:

The Gospel is the power of God unto salvation. It tells us that much more is expected of us than faith. Salvation come at the end of our faith (1 Peter 1:9). We have to hear the gospel, believe it and repent of sins. There must be a public confession of Jesus Christ a God's Son. We must be immersed in Christ (Gal. 3:26-27). -- Where does the Bible mention getting into the spiritual body of Christ, the church, except by being obedient to baptism?

Is this what you are saying or Just a Christian?

Carri

 

[c.moore]

Carri
Is this what you are saying or Just a Christian?

No this is JAC .

 

[carri]

C. Moore and others--

How about this one:

Mark16:16 "Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned." This was spoken by Christ and since you, C.Moore have posted on another thread

I agree with the bible and sence I agree with the bible my Father Jesus Christ agree`s with me

then you must agree with this statement.

Now I know I will get the argument that because the second part of his statement doesn't say that whoever is not baptized will be condemned, that baptism is not necessary. So look at this statement:
"Whoever goes to McDonald's and eats a meal will get heartburn, but whoever does not go to McDonald's won't."

That connective word "and" is very important. If a person goes to McDonalds but doesn't eat a meal, he won't suffer heartburn. The heartburn will only occur if he eats the meal. At the end of my initial statement it was not necessary for me to state that whoever does not eat the meal won't get heartburn, because if he doesn't go to McDonalds he won't have the meal to eat anyway. Just as there are two things necessary to get heartburn, the "and" in Christ's statement indicates that two things are necessary for salvation.

Saying that a person will be baptized because he is saved is like saying that a person will eat a meal at McDonalds because he has heartburn. Got it?


Carri

 

[Kevin]

c.moore,

Ac:2:38: Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Sorry but I don`t see those words he will not be eternally saved in this verse.

Let me ask you a question c.moore. Do you think that somebody has to be alive in Christ and free from sin to make it to heaven?