The Heretics Message to the World:Be Baptized to be Saved! (HOF thread)

[Apollos]

Good work!

Good work!

Kevin and Servant -

The arguments against water baptsim are getting more shallow (no pun intended) and very little is being answered from your arguments. The opposition cannot answer the "meat" of the questions, so they take the "end around".

While their quibbles stack up, just keep presenting the turth on water baptism - which IS for the remission of sins!

Thank you for the encouragement also!! Keep up the good work!

 

[servantofChrist]

Wait to go, Apollos! IT IS AN HONOR to stand with you and Kevin on the side of the truth concerning baptism. And you are right, baptism IS "for the forgiveness [remission] of sins." You are also right that our arguments are not answered, just replied to.

ServantofChrist

 

[Freak]

Essentially the one side is saying Jesus plus water and the other side is saying just Jesus. Since Jesus is the eternal God-man, there is no reason to believe you must have more than Jesus. You who say water is essential for salvation is promoting a false doctrine for the author of Hebrews says:

Let us fix our eyes on Jesus, the author and perfector of our faith,...

Fix our eyes on Jesus not on water baptism!

 

[Kevin]

Unity in the truth

Unity in the truth

Apollos,

I just read your "The blessings "of" water.... " post. Excellent post my friend! Thank you also for the encouragement. Indeed it's an honor to stand up for the truth with you and Servant. Carri also does an execllent job of letting the truth show. Indeed, we're doing a great job of exposing Satan's lies. Excellent work guys!

 

[Kevin]

Freak,

Essentially the one side is saying Jesus plus water and the other side is saying just Jesus.

Wrong. Try again. One side is saying that we should believe in Jesus and obey what He commands us to do. The other side says to believe in Jesus, but it's not necessary to do what He tells us to do.

Like I said before, you go ahead and point people to Jesus. I just hope those people listen to Jesus and obey Him when He says that he who believes and is baptized will be saved (Mark 16:16). I sure hope they don't listen to you, because you're not preaching was Jesus plainly said.

And about James 2... what is your point that he is speaking to believers? That's just it. Jesus says to believe AND be baptized to be saved. James is saying to not only to have faith, but to do good works as well. Just as faith without works is dead, so is belief without baptism!

 

[Kevin]

Freak,

One other thing:

for the author of Hebrews says:

Let us fix our eyes on Jesus, the author and perfector of our faith,...

The author of Hebrews also said:

Hebrews 5:9

9) And having been perfected, He became the author of eternal salvation to all who obey Him.

But I certainly don't see you quoting that. Why? Because it destorys your hollow theory that obedience is not necessary for salvation. This verse clearly says that it is those who obey Him that will recieve salvation through Jesus. But you'll probably ignore the truth as you have been, despite it's clarity.

 

[carri]

Freak--

It's pretty plain by your nasty attitude toward others that not only do you not believe we must obey Christ's command to be baptised, but that you don't believe we must obey His command to love one another either!

Carri

 

[mjwhite]

The only people who can and do obey Him are those He saves. The thief on the cross was not baptized. probally many others in heaven haven't bben either. But those who love the Lord will seek to obey Him and that should include baptism.

mike

 

[carri]

C.Moore--

I think it's a shame that you would actually tell a person that they had to wait until the next appointed time to be baptised once they had decided they wished to do so. It should be done immediately, as it was done during the Biblical times. (Could you even imagine Peter or Paul converting someone and then telling them they had to wait until the 3rd Sunday of the month to be baptised? What a laugh!) As important as Kevin believes baptism is to salvation I can guarantee that is not the way they do things in the church he attends!

I also think you misrepresented Kevin in saying that he said without the ring or the preacher a couple wasn't married. He never said that. He said the license and the ceremony with witnesses was necessary, which in fact, they are. He said nothing about rings or churches.

I don't understand why so-called followers of Christ make such a big deal about following one of his commandments, and whether it's necessary or not. Everything he tells us is necessary, or he wouldn't bother commanding us to do it. I mean, it's not like he's asking us to jump off a bridge or something! Why would anyone even take the chance of not doing something He commands when there is any question of whether their salvation might hinge on it?

Carri

 

[Freak]

Carri-

Please tell me if Jesus is telling the truth when He said:

For my Father's will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in Him shall have eternal life.

-John 6:40

Please tell me you believe Jesus when He says if you believe (note: no mention of baptism) in Him you will attain eternal life. You do believe Jesus was telling the truth here, don't you?

Kevin,

Do you understand the Scriptures? It is Jesus in us that enables any of us to do any good works. Without Him you can do nothing. If you know Christ He will enable you to obey Him. But obedience does not save us neither does good works. Turn with me to Titus 3 where the writer tells us that "He saved us, not because of righteous things e had done, but because of His mercy..." Note it wasn't obedience that saved us but rather His great mercy.

 

[c.moore]

hey brother freak
I like that biblical truth
Turn with me to Titus 3 where the writer tells us that "He saved us, not because of righteous things e had done, but because of His mercy..." Note it wasn't obedience that saved us but rather His great mercy.

God bless you and your ministry.

 

[c.moore]

Is this scripture saying Jesus is coming with water baptism or Spiritual Baptism???

Joh:1:33: And I knew him not: but he that sent me to baptize with water, the same said unto me, Upon whom thou shalt see the Spirit descending, and remaining on him, the same is he which baptizeth with the Holy Ghost.

God Bless

 

[JustAChristian]

Let's have a little English Lesson

Freak,

Have you ever used the word "Synecdoche"? Do you know what it means? It is a little used word but is a very important term. It means using a word that stands for the whole of anything. For instance, if several buildings of a city was on fire, someone might say, "The city is on fire!." Really, its not, but only a few of the buildings are ablaze. One would use this term instead of saying, The bank is on fire, the bakery is on fire, the grocery is on fire, the hardware store is on fire and on and on. By using the word "city" in this case, you use a synecdoche. The same is true in reference to belief. When one uses the term "believe" as Paul did to the Philippian jailor, he was intending to use a term that would stand for the whole matter. When one believes, he hears the words of Jesus, he accepts the words as truthful and is willing to move forward in doing them. He does so in repenting of sins and confessing Christ as the Son of God. He washes away his sins in baptism just a Paul did in Demascus at the bidding of Ananias. He then is united with Christ where his belief continues as he walks in newness of life. All this is believing on the Lord Jesus Christ, and unless one is willing to do these things, he is not believing, but following a man made devils doc trine. Really, its not all that hard, is it?

JustAChristian

 

[JustAChristian]

Freak,
Check out my post on "English lesson" above

JustAChristian

 

[Freak]

JustaChristian,

I read your posts with great interest. The English lesson however proved no point and it sure did not deal with my stance that Jesus, the Person, is enough for ones Salvation. The Apostle Paul made it clear again when speaking of having righteousness, he says it comes by "...faith in Christ-the righteousness that comes from God and is by faith" (Philippians 3:9). Notice righteousness is found not in water baptism for water cannot and will not make you righteous only eternal Jesus can make one righteous. That can only be attained by faith according to this passage not by water.

 

[carri]

Freak--

If simply believing is just enough for salvation then why does Paul tell the Church at Corinth not to associate with bretheren who are sexually immoral, greedy, slanderous, practice idolatry, drunkards, or swindelers? In 1Cor6:10 he tells them that none of these people will inherit the kingdom of God. This makes it clear that He expects us to do--or in this case NOT do--certain things in order to inherit His kingdom. Believing in Jesus does not make us exempt from doing ALL that he commands.

It must be very comforting for you to be able to pick and choose the verses in the Bible that support your view, while excluding those that don't, without it bothering your conscience. I wonder if you follow recipes the same way when you cook? You know, if you bake a cake and you decide that you are not going to put in any baking soda because you don't like the taste of it, but then you go ahead and add three times the salt because you really like the taste of salty foods, you end up with something to eat that is really quite unacceptable. The same is true with God's Word. You cannot just leave out the parts you don't like and overemphasize the parts you do, or He will not find you acceptable.

Carri

 

[Freak]

Carri-

I noticed how you avoided my question: Was Jesus speaking the truth when He said belief in Him alone is enough for salvation or was He lying? You don't believe Jesus was misleading when He said that belief in Him was all one needed to attain eternal life or do you?

Please do not misunderstand me-I stand for the truth and that is Jesus is enough for salvation you stand for error when you say Jesus is just not enough.

 

[godspell]

Carri -

"We know that the Son of God has come and has given us understanding, so that we know the true God - in union with his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and this is eternal life."

1 John 5.20

Perhaps you are more familiar with

"I am the way, the truth, and the light. Whosoever believeth in me shall not perish, but have everlasting life."

 

[carri]

Freak--

I absolutely believe Christ was telling the truth when he said the Father's will was for all to believe in His Son and be saved. I also believe he was telling the truth in Mark 16:16 where he says that whoever believes and is baptised will be saved. Believing the first does not exclude the second as you would have so many believe. I believe we have to do EVERYTHING he commanded us to do. I guess it's just too bad he didn't make all his commands known in one sentence at one time so that people couldn't pick and choose the ones they like.

Back to the cake: If I tell someone how to make a cake over the phone and I don't mention every single detail, but later I send them a recipe card with ALL the details, which do you think they should follow? Because I didn't mention putting it in the oven over the phone does that mean they can just skip that step?

By the way, would you please show me one verse where Christ says that the ONLY thing you have to do is believe, with that qualifying word? Thanks!

Carri

 

[godspell]

Carri - did you read my post, or were you simply responding to Freak?