The Heretics Message to the World:Be Baptized to be Saved! (HOF thread)

[HopeofGlory]

Originally posted by Francisco

Can you please show me the scripture that says Spirit baptism is for the forgiveness of sins?

Christ Jesus is that Spirit and Christ said....""Drink"" ye all of it; Matt. 26:27 (KJV)
For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins. Matt. 26:28 (KJV)

These words when believed grant remission of sins.

For by one (three are one) Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to """drink""" into one Spirit. 1 Cor. 12:13 (KJV)

In Christ
Craig

 

[Freak]

Good posts Hope!

 

[Freak]

Fran, I have dealt with your problems. Now deal with mine. Was Jesus mistaken when He said all one had to do was believe unto Him to be saved (see John 10:9).

 

[Francisco]

HopeofGlory

HopeofGlory said:
Not so fast, you have offered no rebuttal. Are you so blinded by your doctrine that you can't receive the truth. Show us where Christ commanded the apostles to "water" baptize. Why is it that you have to continually add words to scripture as if it will prove your point?

Not so fast yourself, you evidently couldn't see all my words looking through your filtered lense. I never said that Christ commanded the apostles to 'water' baptize. I said He commanded them to teach AND to baptize. I then went on to point out that throughout the New Testament we find the same apostles he commanded to 'baptize' performing water baptism.

You have offered no rebuttal to this. Do you think the apostles just got it all wrong? They didn't know what Jesus meant we he commanded them to baptize? Besides, if it was not water baptism He commanded them to perform, what kind of baptism was it?

And here are a few of the scripture quotations that back my position:
Mark 16:16 - 'Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved.'
You have continually failed to provide any rebuttal to show why we shouldn't take Jesus at His word here, literally. All you have done was point to other verses in which baptism isn't mentioned. That is not a sufficient defense, as I have also pointed out the same verses you have pointed to make no mention of repentence, which you have already agreed is necessary for salvation. You must keep in mind that no bible verse should be considered in isolation from the rest of scripture. God doesn't contradict himself, so it is necessary to study all the verses on a single subject so that no single text can be interpretted in such a way as to contradict other verses.

Acts 8:34-38 - '34So the eunuch answered Philip and said, "I ask you, of whom does the prophet say this, of himself or of some other man?" 35Then Philip opened his mouth, and beginning at this Scripture, preached Jesus to him. 36Now as they went down the road, they came to some water. And the eunuch said, "See, here is water. What hinders me from being baptized?" 37Then Philip said, "If you believe with all your heart, you may."
And he answered and said, "I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God." 38So he commanded the chariot to stand still. And both Philip and the eunuch went down into the water, and he baptized him.'
I have posted this same quotation several times, and you have yet to offer a single shred of rebuttal. I ask you again, why did Philip WATER BAPTIZE the eunuch into Jesus Christ? Did Philip just misunderstand what Jesus meant when He commanded the apostles to baptize? Since you say Jesus didn't mean WATER baptism, can you explain what kind of baptism he meant?

Acts 10:47 - 'Can any man forbid water, that these should be baptized, which have received the Holy Spirit as well as we?'
This verse alone should be enough to dispell your notion that baptism is just symbolic. Why in the world would Peter make such a big deal of baptizing Cornelius and his group in WATER, after they had already received the Spirit, if baptism is just symbolic???

HopeofGlory said:
The scriptures I provided prove baptism is now an operation of God by the Spirit and that the witness of the Baptist was superceded by the work of the cross. Why so? Because the death of Christ removed the law.

You have proven nothing at all. Until you can make ALL the verses dealing with baptism coalesce with your man-made theology, you haven't proved anything! As long as there are contradictions your interpretation is flawed.

Please provide the scripture that 'Christ removed the law.' And while your looking for it, please consider this verse:
Matt 5:17 - "Do not think that I came to destroy the law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill. For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled.

No Francisco, you have not answered the arguments presented to you. You just continue to ask foolish questions that have already been answered.

It is you my friend who have not provided rebuttal for many of the questions I've asked. Please point to your previous answers about Philip's baptism of the eunuch, or the response to the several times I've asked you to explain Romans 6:4-6. I took you through my interpretation of the verse line-by-line. Why do you refuse to answer me and do the same? Could it be because those verses don't fit with your man-made theology?

Here are just a few of my questions you haven't responded to. I'm putting them here for clarity, and so you don't have to go back through previous posts looking for them:

1) If water baptism was not what Jesus commanded at Matt 28:19, what kind of baptims did He mean?

2) If water baptism was not what Jesus commanded at Matt 28:19, why did the apostles water baptize?

3) What was the purpose of the water baptism of the eunuch by Philip, or Cornelius and friends by Peter?

4) What did Jesus really mean at Mark 16:16 when He said 'Whoever believes AND IS BAPTIZED'?

5) What did Jesus really mean when he said 'Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father...'?

Please point out to me what questions of yours that I have not yetanswered, and I will be happy to answer them. Please reciprocate. (That means do the same for me.)

 

[JustAChristian]

No!

No!

Originally posted by Freak
Fran, I have dealt with your problems. Now deal with mine. Was Jesus mistaken when He said all one had to do was believe unto Him to be saved (see John 10:9).

Was Jesus wrong when He said, "He that believes and is baptized will be saved"? (Mark 16:16)

JustAChristian

 

[JustAChristian]

Do You Understand Faith and Its Blessings?

Do You Understand Faith and Its Blessings?

Faith is a vital subject for us to study . We know the extent of Christ and the nature of God through faith. We can not see them physically at this time, but through the Bible we come to know them well, by faith. This is a great blessing of God that we can relate to Him in this fashion.

The Bible tells us about our salvation and justification coming through the process of faith. ‟We reckon therefore that a man is justified by faith apart from the works of the law” (Rom 3:28). Here we see that justification is by faith without having to keep the Law of Moses. We understand further by what Paul told the Galatian churches, ‟Yet knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law but through faith in Jesus Christ, even we believed on Christ Jesus, that we might be justified by faith in Christ, and not by the works of the law: because by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified” (Gal. 2:16). When we believe and follow after Christ we are justified by faith (Rom 5:1; Heb 5:8-9). We must understand, however, that justification by faith and the doctrine of faith only or alone is not the same thing. One is scriptural while the other is not. We are saved by faith but not by faith only or alone (James 2:24)..

Salvation is a great blessing of God. It comes by grace through faith (Eph 2:8). Through faith, we are obeying God. Salvation is never received by meritorious works. The Bible helps to know that obeying God is not doing meritorious works (Jn 6:28-29). When one obeys the faith ‟once delivered to the saints” ( Jude 3), obedience of faith saves them (Rom 1:5; Eph 2:2:8-9).


Holiness is a blessing of God. The Bible tells us that Paul’s mission was ‟to open their eyes (the Gentiles), that they may turn from darkness to light and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive remission of sins and an inheritance among them that are sanctified by faith in me” (Acts 26:18). One is separated to sanctified or made holy by faith in Jesus. The Jew and Gentile, who have obeyed the Gospel, are mutually sanctified and have joint heritage in Jesus Christ (Acts 15:9).

It is great to know that we have forgiveness of sins because of our obedient faith. The Bible says, ‟To him bear all the prophets witness, that through his name every one that believeth on him shall receive remission of sins” (Acts 10:43). There is no salvation without believing on Jesus. What does believing on Jesus mean? Does the Bible tell us? We learn this fact in this manner. The Hebrew writer says of Christ, ‟…having been made perfect, he became unto all them that obey him the author of eternal salvation (Heb 5:9). So believing on Christ is the same as obeying Christ, for one can not do one without doing the other.

Sin separates us from God’s salvation (Isa. 59:1-2). Having our sins forgiven is a blessing of faith and allows us to have access to God . The Bible says, ‟Being therefore justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ; through whom also we have had our access by faith into this grace wherein we stand; and we rejoice in hope of the glory of God” (Rom 5:1-2). Paul says of Christ, ‟In whom we have boldness and access in confidence through our faith in him” (Eph 3:12). What a great blessing to be intimate in salvation by faith in Jesus Christ.

Many are the great blessings of God that faith brings to us. We must understand though, that spiritual blessings are not received through faith only or alone. The Bible tells us that there is peace, joy and hope. We are guarded by God through faith in Christ (1 Peter 1:5). Because we have been united to Christ in baptism (Gal 3:26-27), we have access to our heavenly home and inheritances promised because of an obedient faith (Heb 6:12; Rom 16:26). Have faith in God. The Bible tells us “He that believes and is baptized shall be saved” (Mark 16:16) . Doing this is having faith in God to cleanse us of the blood of Christ (Rom. 3:25; Acts 22:16). Believe the Gospel of Jesus Christ and obey Him today. You’ll never cease enjoying spiritual blessings (Eph. 1:3; 2 Peter 1:3). . Continue to seek the Lord, and have a great day.

JustAChristian

 

[Freak]

JUSTworks asked: Was Jesus wrong when He said, "He that believes and is baptized will be saved"? (Mark 16:16)

No, but continue reading verse 17 you will see baptism is not what condemns you but rather unbelief.

Remember to focus on Jesus and not on water.

 

[JustAChristian]

Wow!

Wow!

Originally posted by Freak
JUSTworks asked: Was Jesus wrong when He said, "He that believes and is baptized will be saved"? (Mark 16:16)

No, but continue reading verse 17 you will see baptism is not what condemns you but rather unbelief.

Remember to focus on Jesus and not on water.

:doh: You mean to say that if Jesus has told you what to do and you don't do it you are not expressing unbelief? Wow! What a standard of life. James said, "Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin." ( James 4:17). Isn't this clearly saying that if you know something is commanded and you want do it you are sinning? Will Jesus allow sinners in heaven? How are you going to get rid of your sin? How did Paul get rid of his sins (Acts 22:16). He didn't "dodge them" like you are. You've got a wierd manner of life and conclusion, if you ask me.

JustAChristian :angel:

 

[Freak]

Justworks,

You said: How are you going to get rid of your sin?

Well, First John 1:9 tells us if we confess our sins God would forgive us. My sin has already been forgiven-past, present, future and guess what? It wasn't through baptism but simple confession

 

[Apollos]

It takes more than confession...

It takes more than confession...

In 1 John 1:9 an important distinction must be made. John is addressing those who are already saved and telling them how to remain saved. John is not telling anyone here how to obtain salvation from the Lord. Those addressed here already have that!

How then should we apply verse 7 of this chapter ?? “If we walk in the light…”

Is there any WALKING required to have the blood of Christ cleanse us from sin??

According to this verse – YES !! Believers MUST WALK in the light to be cleansed!

(You see now that the “confess only” proposal is wrong as well as not applicable here.)

Yet those who are in a hurry to promote their doctrine of “confess only” to be saved must, even in this passage to believers, ignore other factors that are required for keeping salvation.

 

[Francisco]

JUSTworks asked: Was Jesus wrong when He said, "He that believes and is baptized will be saved"? (Mark 16:16)

No, but continue reading verse 17 you will see baptism is not what condemns you but rather unbelief.

Remember to focus on Jesus and not on water.

Hmmm. I think I'm going to have to borrow your colored-lensed glasses to draw the same conclusion you did from verse 17. Let's take a look at verses 16 and 17:

16He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned. 17And these signs will follow those who believe: In My name they will cast out demons; they will speak with new tongues;

And you say that verse 17 shows 'baptism is not what condemns you but rather unbelief'?!?!?!???

What ARE you talking about?

You seem confused Freak. So far as I can tell, noone on this thread said that baptism is what condemns you. Obviously unbelief is what condemns you because Jesus VERY CLEARLY said:

but he who does not believe will be condemned.

I'm sure you can agree Jesus made this perfectly clear, right? Good, I knew you would agree. Now explain why Jesus didn't really mean what He said in the beginning of the same sentence:

He who believes and is baptized will be saved;

That seems just as clear to me as the part you agree with about unbelief causing damnation.

Please explain this.


BTW, are you ever going to answer any of the questions I've repeatedly asked you Freak? As I have at least respponded to all your questions, I think the least you could do is respond to the 5 questions I outlined for you several posts back. Again, for clarity and to avoid confusion over which questions I'm referring to, I'll post them here again:

1) If water baptism was not what Jesus commanded at Matt 28:19, what kind of baptims did He mean?

2) If water baptism was not what Jesus commanded at Matt 28:19, why did the apostles water baptize?

3) What was the purpose of the water baptism of the eunuch by Philip, or Cornelius and friends by Peter?

4) What did Jesus really mean at Mark 16:16 when He said 'Whoever believes AND IS BAPTIZED'?

5) What did Jesus really mean when he said 'Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father...'?

Thank you in advance for your considerate reply Freak.

God Bless,

Francisco

 

[HopeofGlory]

Originally posted by Francisco
Not so fast yourself, you evidently couldn't see all my words looking through your filtered lense. I never said that Christ commanded the apostles to 'water' baptize.

So then, are you admitting to the fact that Jesus did not command the apostles to water baptize?

I said He commanded them to teach AND to baptize. I then went on to point out that throughout the New Testament we find the same apostles he commanded to 'baptize' performing water baptism.
Again you attempt destroy the words of Christ. He did not command them to do the baptizing. You have not explained how it would be possible that the apostles could baptize ALL NATIONS in water. What Jesus said was...Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: Matt. 28:19 (KJV)


You have offered no rebuttal to this. Do you think the apostles just got it all wrong? They didn't know what Jesus meant we he commanded them to baptize?

No, they had it right according to the gospel of the kingdom that began with the Baptist. Concerning this gospel Jesus instructed the apostles...These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not: Matt. 10:5
But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. Matt. 10:6
This kingdom gospel with its baptism of repentance for the remission of sins to manifest Christ to unbelieving Israel was completed at Pentecost.
Again, the message of the new testament was veiled until Christ was manifested to Israel. After this manifestation Paul was called by the Spirit to reveal the mystery of grace without works of the law. This is evident in the fact that not once did the apostles at Pentecost reveal the new testament message of faith in His shed blood for remission of sins. They continued to preach the same message of sin remission as the Baptist did before the cross.

Besides, if it was not water baptism He commanded them to perform, what kind of baptism was it?

It was the same baptism that the Baptist spoke of...I indeed have baptized you with water: but he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost...Mark 1:8

John informed us that ....He must increase, but I must decrease (John 3:30) and... A man can receive nothing, except it be given him from heaven (John 3:27).

What did Jesus have to say concerning this...
Ye sent unto John, and he bare witness unto the truth. John 5:33
But I receive not testimony from man: but these things I say, that ye might be saved. John 5:34
He was a burning and a shining light: and ye were willing for a season to rejoice in his light. John 5:35
But I have greater witness than that of John: for the works which the Father hath given me to finish, the same works that I do, bear witness of me, that the Father hath sent me. John 5:36

This all has to do with authority. Men were given the authority to forgive sins.

And thou, child, shalt be called the prophet of the Highest: for thou shalt go before the face of the Lord to prepare his ways; Luke 1:76
To give knowledge of salvation unto his people by the remission of their sins, Luke 1:77

Whose soever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto them; and whose soever sins ye retain, they are retained. John 20:23

No man of today has the power to remit sins.

And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying,""All"" power is given unto me in heaven and in earth. Matt. 28:18

Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father: Matt. 28:19

Baptizing them in water? No! Baptizing in the Name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost.

No apostle ever baptized in this manner. Why, because they did not have the power to do so.

Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.Matt. 28:20

The apostles did not obey this command but continued to preach the Baptist's message of a baptism of repentance for remission that was to be superceded by Spirit baptism. What was it that Jesus commanded them?

Drink ye all of it; Matt. 26:27
For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins. Matt. 26:28

Not one word of the new testament was revealed by the apostles at Pentecost. This message was not received because it offended them (John 6:61).

They were commanded to drink His blood and eat His flesh and it offended them. It was not to be receive literally but spiritually to the inner man.

It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life. John 6:63

Did the apostles believe these words? No! They still held to the law. Ye shall eat the blood of no manner of flesh: for the life of all flesh is the blood thereof: whosoever eateth it shall be cut off. Lev. 17:14

Do we have the power to remit sins? Absolutely NOT! We can preach the gospel of Christ concerning the new testament truth and it is God by the Spirit (Who is Christ) that baptizes all that spiritually "drink" the words into the inner man.

For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to "drink" into one Spirit. 1 Cor. 12:13

The above scripture explains exactly how we are Spirit baptized.
We "drink" or receive spiritually one Spirit (Who is Christ). How do we drink this Spirit? Jesus explained it very clearly! We must "believe" His testament.

Drink ye all of it; Matt. 26:27
For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins. Matt. 26:28

Does a spirit have blood? No it does not.

The message was veiled by His flesh!

In Christ
Criag

 

[Freak]

Francisco-

You asked: 1) If water baptism was not what Jesus commanded at Matt 28:19, what kind of baptims did He mean?

-It was water baptism but it wasn't for justification. The burden of proof lies with you to prove otherwise.

2) If water baptism was not what Jesus commanded at Matt 28:19, why did the apostles water baptize?

-They baptized to symbolize the believer's identification with Christ.

3) What was the purpose of the water baptism of the eunuch by Philip, or Cornelius and friends by Peter?

-See above.

4) What did Jesus really mean at Mark 16:16 when He said 'Whoever believes AND IS BAPTIZED'?

-Well, if you look at verse 17 you see that it was unbelief that condemns you not if you had been baptized or not. Ephesians 2:8-9 speak of salvation being attained by faith not by water.

5) What did Jesus really mean when he said 'Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father...'?

-Jesus wanted us to teach people that justification is by faith and then baptize to symbolize the death, burial, and resurrection of Christ.

*Look, Jesus is God, He is our author and finisher of our faith not water.

 

[Francisco]

Freak,

Francisco-

You asked: 1) If water baptism was not what Jesus commanded at Matt 28:19, what kind of baptims did He mean?

-It was water baptism but it wasn't for justification. The burden of proof lies with you to prove otherwise.

Read Romans 6:4-6. Paul explains how through baptism we are joined into Christ's death so 'sins might be done away with', so we can be in His likeness and in the likeness of His resurrection. If you want additional verses, just ask. And if you say Paul is not speaking of water baptism, the burden of proof is on you to prove otherwise.

2) If water baptism was not what Jesus commanded at Matt 28:19, why did the apostles water baptize?

-They baptized to symbolize the believer's identification with Christ.

Then why would Peter insist on baptizing Cornelius, who the Spirit had just descended upon in a very apparent way? Why would Philip baptize the eunuch with no other christians around to see the 'symbol' of the baptism. If it's a symbol, someone must be around to see it or it has no purpose, right?

3) What was the purpose of the water baptism of the eunuch by Philip, or Cornelius and friends by Peter?

-See above.

Wrong. Your conclusion contradicts St. Paul. He says baptism IS for the remission of sin:

1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? 2Certainly not! How shall we who died to sin live any longer in it? 3Or do you not know that as many of us as were BAPTIZED into Christ Jesus were BAPTIZED into His death? 4Therefore we were buried with Him through BAPTISM into death, that just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
5For if we have been united together in the likeness of His death, certainly we also shall be in the likeness of His resurrection, 6 knowing this, that our old man was crucified with Him, that the body of sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves of sin. 7 For he who has died has been freed from sin.

4) What did Jesus really mean at Mark 16:16 when He said 'Whoever believes AND IS BAPTIZED'?

-Well, if you look at verse 17 you see that it was unbelief that condemns you not if you had been baptized or not. Ephesians 2:8-9 speak of salvation being attained by faith not by water.

By the same flawed logic, according to Ephesians 2:8-9, we would not have to repent to be saved. Your logic here is seriously flawed Freak, and it's causing you to reach an erroneous conlusion.

5) What did Jesus really mean when he said 'Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father...'?

-Jesus wanted us to teach people that justification is by faith and then baptize to symbolize the death, burial, and resurrection of Christ.

So, when Jesus said 'He who believes AND IS BAPTIZED will be saved, did He mean that believers who have this 'symbolic' baptism performed will be saved? Wouldn't that be like performing a 'work of the law', expecting it to have an effect on our salvation?

Sorry Freak, your interpretation doesn't fit. Thanks for giving it a try though.

-Jesus wanted us to teach people that justification is by faith and then baptize to symbolize the death, burial, and resurrection of Christ.

*Look, Jesus is God, He is our author and finisher of our faith not water.

Actually, you keep saying justification is BY FAITH, when your own scripture quote above says otherwise:

8For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast.

Do you see what I mean Freak. We are saved BY GRACE, a free gift of God, THROUGH FAITH in God. Who are you to say God can't use a substance like water to confer that grace upon believers when they are baptized, just as Jesus conferred a grace upon the blind man at the pool of Siloam through water? Can you find a scripture verse that is opposed to grace being conferred through a substance?

Good night Freak. We can talk some more tomorrow night.

God Bless,

Francisco

 

[cirisme]

Some feedback, if you guys would be kind enough:

You can't earn your way to heaven!

:kiss:

 

[Freak]

Francisco,

Look, the difference I see between you and I is this: I believe Jesus is enough. You believe water is essential. Common sense tells you Jesus is enough because He is God. Water is just water it merely is something we use to symbolize to the world our commitment to Jesus.

Ephesians 2, Galatians 3, Romans 4 & 5 all point to the reality that salvation is by faith. Your use of Mark 16:16-17 fits in with these others Scriptures as we see Mark clearly stating that it was unbelief that condenms someone not baptism thereby proving belief is essential to salvation not water as you propose.

 

[Apollos]

You must find out what water baptism is FOR & what it DOES !!!

You must find out what water baptism is FOR & what it DOES !!!

There is not ONE passage in the NT that says water baptism is SYMBOLIC of anything. As long as this thread has been running, and as many times as I have asked for it, not one person has given a passage that says water baptism is symbolic….

...of anything !!!

It is time for them to put up or shut up !!!

In Mark 16:16f Jesus said in this particular passage that TWO things are REQUIRED for salvation – belief and baptism. He that does not believe would therefore NOT be baptized and therefore condemned !!

Further proof that the faith/belief that saves is the faith/belief that ACTS !!

 

[Freak]

Apollos,

You want proof that water baptism is symbolic?

Ok, I'll give you proof-the baptism of Jesus Christ. Are you telling me Jesus needed to be baptized to be saved? Jesus was fully God He didn't need the water to experience salvation. It was symbolic!

 

[Apollos]

We all need to "fulfill all righteousness"...

We all need to "fulfill all righteousness"...

Freak –

First, you did not provide a PASSAGE that shows water baptism today is SYMBOLIC…

…of anything. No one has because no one can !!!

Second, I will let you establish that the reason(s) Jesus was baptized in water are the same reason(s) a sinner needs to be baptized in water, since you are the one saying Jesus’ baptism is the same as a sinner’s baptism today. (Or did you not see the fallacy of your reasoning before you posted it ??) Jesus received John’s baptism. Today sinner’s should receive the baptism authorized by Jesus!

Third, from the time that Jesus’ was baptized, He had died, rose again, and ALL authority had been given to Him in heaven and earth – Matthew 28:18f. It was at this time the Jesus authorized a NEW BAPTISM. This baptism was into the “name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.” This is NOT John’s baptism which was for repentance!

From this time at Matthew 28:18f (actually starting on Pentecost in Acts 2) this new baptism “in the name of Jesus Christ” (that is, the baptism Jesus authorized in Matt. 28:18f) was what all apostles and disciples practiced, and it was for the remission of sins – see Acts 2:38, 22:16.

And to finish – please tell me WHAT Jesus’ baptism was SYMBOLIC of ???? If you would READ the passage, you will see that it was to FULFIL ALL RIGHTEOUS – Matthew 3:15.

Do you think this was symbolic ??? (Of course, with what you believe, you will never fulfill all righteousness will you??)

 

[Freak]

Apollos--

You asked to show you proof that water baptism was symbolic--I did! Jesus Christ was water baptized not to be saved but to carry out a very real powerful symbol that would be carried out by generations of those who trusted in Him and then identified with Him in water baptism.

Common sense tells us water is not God but Jesus is--so Jesus is able to save not mere aqua.