Does the gospel of Christ go to the Jew first TODAY?
ECT Scriptures against the false pre-tribulation rapture doctrine
- Thread starter ZacharyB
- Start date
Does the gospel of Christ go to the Jew first TODAY?
Is He reigning right now?
I know of no other group of Christians who claim Jesus is going to return to planet earth and reign for exactly 1,000 years, other than Dispensationalists.
Congratulations!
How about the mortal people living side by side with the immortal people during the alleged "millennium"?
Do you believe that?
It has always been thus.
Can you show me where in the Bible it says that one day mortal people will live with immortal people?
What you are doing is confusing prior Dispensational advantage that gradually diminished to where such was no longer the case (albeit, temporarily), with said advantage having been done away at some earlier point; the result of your confused, Preterist system.
I’ll relate the following from within the Mid-Acts I hold to (for, as will be the case within any school of thought, people within a same school will at times differ not only in their approach, but as a result, in their resulting understanding).
Within the Mid-Acts I hold to yes, much, though not all of Romans; is still for today.
Romans 1:16 is an example of this – though the order and sequence related there had been in effect throughout Acts, after Acts it was no longer the order, at the same time, the gospel of Christ remained applicable to both, and continues to remain the case today.
For, at the same time, one aspect of what Paul was asserting in Romans 1:16 is that the Jew who believed; was then saved, just as the Greek who believed; was then saved: and this aspect remains the case today.
We see a progression in the diminishing of "the Jew first" aspect, in Acts.
Peter in Acts 3:
25. Ye are the children of the prophets, and of the covenant which God made with our fathers, saying unto Abraham, And in thy seed shall all the kindreds of the earth be blessed.
26. Unto you first God, having raised up his Son Jesus, sent him to bless you, in turning away every one of you from his iniquities.
Stephen in Acts 7:
51. Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye.
52. Which of the prophets have not your fathers persecuted? and they have slain them which shewed before of the coming of the Just One; of whom ye have been now the betrayers and murderers:
53. Who have received the law by the disposition of angels, and have not kept it.
Paul in Acts 13:
45. But when the Jews saw the multitudes, they were filled with envy, and spake against those things which were spoken by Paul, contradicting and blaspheming.
46. Then Paul and Barnabas waxed bold, and said, It was necessary that the word of God should first have been spoken to you: but seeing ye put it from you, and judge yourselves unworthy of everlasting life, lo, we turn to the Gentiles.
Paul in Acts 18:
5. And when Silas and Timotheus were come from Macedonia, Paul was pressed in the spirit, and testified to the Jews that Jesus was Christ.
6. And when they opposed themselves, and blasphemed, he shook his raiment, and said unto them, Your blood be upon your own heads; I am clean; from henceforth I will go unto the Gentiles.
What is the recurrent pattern as to where all this was headed?
Paul in Romans 11 and in Romans 15 (written in Acts 18, well aware that Romans’ 1:16’s “to the Jew first” was temporary).
Paul’s awareness of Israel’s fall and gradual diminishing as a focus “first” - Romans 11:
11. I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy.
12. Now if the fall of them be the riches of the world, and the diminishing of them the riches of the Gentiles; how much more their fulness?
Again, Paul’s awareness again that “the Jew first” focus had been temporary - Romans 15:
19. Through mighty signs and wonders, by the power of the Spirit of God; so that from Jerusalem, and round about unto Illyricum, I have fully preached the gospel of Christ.
20. Yea, so have I strived to preach the gospel, not where Christ was named, lest I should build upon another man’s foundation:
21. But as it is written, To whom he was not spoken of, they shall see: and they that have not heard shall understand.
22. For which cause also I have been much hindered from coming to you.
23. But now having no more place in these parts, and having a great desire these many years to come unto you;
24. Whensoever I take my journey into Spain, I will come to you: for I trust to see you in my journey, and to be brought on my way thitherward by you, if first I be somewhat filled with your company.
Again - Paul in Acts 26:
19. Whereupon, O king Agrippa, I was not disobedient unto the heavenly vision:
20. But shewed first unto them of Damascus, and at Jerusalem, and throughout all the coasts of Judaea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to God, and do works meet for repentance.
21. For these causes the Jews caught me in the temple, and went about to kill me.
Did Paul reach Rome?
Yes, and with that, “to the Jew first” comes to an end - Paul in Acts 28:
16. And when we came to Rome, the centurion delivered the prisoners to the captain of the guard:
but Paul was suffered to dwell by himself with a soldier that kept him.
17. And it came to pass, that after three days Paul called the chief of the Jews together: and when they were come together, he said unto them, Men and brethren, though I have committed nothing against the people, or customs of our fathers, yet was I delivered prisoner from Jerusalem into the hands of the Romans.
25. And when they agreed not among themselves, they departed, after that Paul had spoken one word, Well spake the Holy Ghost by Esaias the prophet unto our fathers,
26. Saying, Go unto this people, and say, Hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and not perceive:
27. For the heart of this people is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes have they closed; lest they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.
28. Be it known therefore unto you, that the salvation of God is sent unto the Gentiles, and that they will hear it.
Yes He is--
Act 2:30 Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne;
Act 2:31 He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption.
Act 2:32 This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses.
Act 2:33 Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.
Act 2:34 For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand,
Act 2:35 Until I make thy foes thy footstool.
Christ never changes Thrones
Rev 3:21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.
Christ's Throne remains in the Heavenly City, not moving into an another earthly one--
Rev 21:22 And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it.
Rev 21:23 And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof.
You have it all wrong.
The house of Jacob is the House of Faith not defined by the flesh of the OT.
With what else could God give men pre-Christ, their understanding.
The things of the law were but shadows of the greater things to come.
The David of the OT was a type of Christ as was David's Throne and Kingdom as Peter preached above in Acts ch 2.
Christ Himself tells us this---
Joh 10:14 I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of mine.
Joh 10:15 As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep.
Joh 10:16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.
LA
They do not live WITH them.
They live at the same time and have contact in Government and Church.
Rev 5:9 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;
Rev 5:10 And hast made us (them) unto our God kings and priests: and we (they) shall reign on the earth.
LA
Rev 3:21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his[/] throne.
Matthew 8:
11. And I say unto you, That many shall come from the east and west, and shall sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, in the kingdom of heaven.
12. But the children of the kingdom shall be cast out into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
Matthew 19:
27. Then answered Peter and said unto him, Behold, we have forsaken all, and followed thee; what shall we have therefore?
28. And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.
29. And every one that hath forsaken houses, or brethren, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands, for my name's sake, shall receive an hundredfold, and shall inherit everlasting life.
30. But many that are first shall be last; and the last shall be first.
Luke 13:
28. There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when ye shall see Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, and all the prophets, in the kingdom of God, and you yourselves thrust out.
29. And they shall come from the east, and from the west, and from the north, and from the south, and shall sit down in the kingdom of God.
30. And, behold, there are last which shall be first, and there are first which shall be last.
Acts 3:
18. But those things, which God before had shewed by the mouth of all his prophets, that Christ should suffer, he hath so fulfilled.
19. Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord.
20. And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you:
21. Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.
22. For Moses truly said unto the fathers, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear in all things whatsoever he shall say unto you.
23. And it shall come to pass, that every soul, which will not hear that prophet, shall be destroyed from among the people.
1 Peter 1:
7. That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ:
8. Whom having not seen, ye love; in whom, though now ye see him not, yet believing, ye rejoice with joy unspeakable and full of glory:
9. Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls.
10. Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you:
11. Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow.
12. Unto whom it was revealed, that not unto themselves, but unto us they did minister the things, which are now reported unto you by them that have preached the gospel unto you with the Holy Ghost sent down from heaven; which things the angels desire to look into.
13. Wherefore gird up the loins of your mind, be sober, and hope to the end for the grace that is to be brought unto you at the revelation of Jesus Christ;
Etc., etc.
Matthew 8:
11. And I say unto you, That many shall come from the east and west, and shall sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, in the kingdom of heaven.
12. But the children of the kingdom shall be cast out into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
Matthew 19:
27. Then answered Peter and said unto him, Behold, we have forsaken all, and followed thee; what shall we have therefore?
28. And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.
29. And every one that hath forsaken houses, or brethren, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands, for my name's sake, shall receive an hundredfold, and shall inherit everlasting life.
30. But many that are first shall be last; and the last shall be first.
Luke 13:
28. There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when ye shall see Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, and all the prophets, in the kingdom of God, and you yourselves thrust out.
29. And they shall come from the east, and from the west, and from the north, and from the south, and shall sit down in the kingdom of God.
30. And, behold, there are last which shall be first, and there are first which shall be last.
Acts 3:
18. But those things, which God before had shewed by the mouth of all his prophets, that Christ should suffer, he hath so fulfilled.
19. Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord.
20. And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you:
21. Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.
22. For Moses truly said unto the fathers, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear in all things whatsoever he shall say unto you.
23. And it shall come to pass, that every soul, which will not hear that prophet, shall be destroyed from among the people.
1 Peter 1:
7. That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ:
8. Whom having not seen, ye love; in whom, though now ye see him not, yet believing, ye rejoice with joy unspeakable and full of glory:
9. Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls.
10. Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you:
11. Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow.
12. Unto whom it was revealed, that not unto themselves, but unto us they did minister the things, which are now reported unto you by them that have preached the gospel unto you with the Holy Ghost sent down from heaven; which things the angels desire to look into.
13. Wherefore gird up the loins of your mind, be sober, and hope to the end for the grace that is to be brought unto you at the revelation of Jesus Christ;
Etc., etc.
The Matthew 16:16 "Church;" yeah.
As for some mortals; some are well off, and some - not exactly wonderful people - Rev. 22:
14. Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
15. For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.
The good, the bad, and the ugly - Isaiah 66:
20. And they shall bring all your brethren for an offering unto the LORD out of all nations upon horses, and in chariots, and in litters, and upon mules, and upon swift beasts, to my holy mountain Jerusalem, saith the LORD, as the children of Israel bring an offering in a clean vessel into the house of the LORD.
21. And I will also take of them for priests and for Levites, saith the LORD.
22. For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the LORD, so shall your seed and your name remain.
23. And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD.
24. And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh.
musterion
Well-known member
No, He's not.
Peter said that Christ was raised 'to sit', not that it has already happened.
Christ Himself said that He would sit on His glorious throne at His second coming.
Mat 25:31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:
That is the very verse that says that there are two different thrones, the Father's and Christ's. How can you be so oblivious to what is plainly says?
The truth is that GOD does not change what He has promised. You obviously believe He does change, which is in effect calling GOD a liar.
Psa 89:34 My covenant will I not break, nor alter the thing that is gone out of my lips.
Psa 89:35 Once have I sworn by my holiness that I will not lie unto David.
Psa 89:36 His seed shall endure for ever, and his throne as the sun before me.
Psa 89:37 It shall be established for ever as the moon, and as a faithful witness in heaven. Selah.
Luk 1:32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:
Luk 1:33 And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.
The Lord said that he would not lie nor alter the thing which He said.
You, on the other hand, say that He lied and altered it.
The Lord Jesus plainly said that He would sit on His glorious throne at His second coming to earth.
It always amazes me that some take prophecy concerning Christ's first coming as literal, then change hermeneutic when reading prophecy concerning His second coming to earth.
This plainly takes place chronologically after Christ's reign upon this earth and in the time of the new heavens and new earth.
No.....you do.
The house of Jacob is the house of Israel, as defined consistently in Scripture. You have no justification for changing the terms of divinely inspired Scripture or true history, for that matter.
So.....from your twisted interpretation, Gabriel altered what GOD promised and lied to Mary.
David is the literal ancestor of Christ and sat on a literal throne of authority over the twelve tribes, in the land. Solomon sat on his father David's throne, and David's greater son, the Lord Jesus, will likewise sit on His father David's throne.
Your spiritualizing of Scripture is unjustified and perverted.
The Lord Messiah said a lot of things, as I've pointed out......which you twist or ignore.
Not the first 7.5 years.
(2 Sam 5:5) In Hebron he reigned over Judah seven years and six months, and in Jerusalem he reigned over all Israel and Judah thirty-three years.
David only ruled over Judah the first 7.5 years, then he ruled over the 12 tribes 33 years.
If you understood this, and understood the typology, you wouldn't be so confused.
heir
TOL Subscriber
LA doesn't, but believes Acts 2:38 to be the offer on the table. :nono:
That's my point.
You MADists go on and on about how only Romans to Philemon is for believers today, but then we see (as you just proved) that certain passages (i.e. Romans 1:16) are not for believers today.
You can't have it both ways.
When Christ Jesus ascended to Heaven, He sat at the right hand of God the Father, on God the Father's throne.
Matt 25:31 makes it clear that Christ Jesus was to sit there UNTIL He returned.
So, if you believe Christ Jesus did not return yet, then He is still sitting at the side of God the Father on God the Father's throne.
Jesus made it clear in Matt 24:34 that He would return before the generation of His contemporaries passed away. That happened in 70AD, and that is when Christ Jesus sat on His own throne in the Kingdom of God.
Nowhere in the Bible will you find anything about mortal people living with immortal people.
Dispensationalists have to assert this because they have mortal people who "survive" the alleged 7-Year Trib joining immortal people who allegedly come back to planet earth with Christ Jesus.
Again, nowhere in the Bible will you find such nonsense.
