ECT Scriptures against the false pre-tribulation rapture doctrine

[Danoh]

Yep.

Matthew 21:
12. And Jesus went into the temple of God, and cast out all them that sold and bought in the temple, and overthrew the tables of the moneychangers, and the seats of them that sold doves,
13. And said unto them, It is written, My house shall be called the house of prayer; but ye have made it a den of thieves.

Heaven His Throne/The Earth His Footstool - Matthew 23:

21. And whoso shall swear by the temple, sweareth by it, and by him that dwelleth therein.
22. And he that shall swear by heaven, sweareth by the throne of God, and by him that sitteth thereon.

Luke 1:
8. And it came to pass, that while he executed the priest's office before God in the order of his course,
9. According to the custom of the priest's office, his lot was to burn incense when he went into the temple of the Lord.

Luke 2:
27. And he came by the Spirit into the temple: and when the parents brought in the child Jesus, to do for him after the custom of the law,
28. Then took he him up in his arms, and blessed God, and said,
29. Lord, now lettest thou thy servant depart in peace, according to thy word:
30. For mine eyes have seen thy salvation,
31. Which thou hast prepared before the face of all people;
32. A light to lighten the Gentiles, and the glory of thy people Israel.

36. And there was one Anna, a prophetess, the daughter of Phanuel, of the tribe of Aser: she was of a great age, and had lived with an husband seven years from her virginity;
37. And she was a widow of about fourscore and four years, which departed not from the temple, but served God with fastings and prayers night and day.

Luke 24:
51. And it came to pass, while he blessed them, he was parted from them, and carried up into heaven.
52. And they worshipped him, and returned to Jerusalem with great joy:
53. And were continually in the temple, praising and blessing God. Amen.

Acts 2:
46. And they, continuing daily with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, did eat their meat with gladness and singleness of heart,
47. Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved.

Acts 3:
1. Now Peter and John went up together into the temple at the hour of prayer, being the ninth hour.
2. And a certain man lame from his mother's womb was carried, whom they laid daily at the gate of the temple which is called Beautiful, to ask alms of them that entered into the temple;

 

[tetelestai]

Yep.

Matthew 21:
12. And Jesus went into the temple of God, and cast out all them that sold and bought in the temple, and overthrew the tables of the moneychangers, and the seats of them that sold doves,
13. And said unto them, It is written, My house shall be called the house of prayer; but ye have made it a den of thieves.

Heaven His Throne/The Earth His Footstool - Matthew 23:

21. And whoso shall swear by the temple, sweareth by it, and by him that dwelleth therein.
22. And he that shall swear by heaven, sweareth by the throne of God, and by him that sitteth thereon.

Luke 1:
8. And it came to pass, that while he executed the priest's office before God in the order of his course,
9. According to the custom of the priest's office, his lot was to burn incense when he went into the temple of the Lord.

Luke 2:
27. And he came by the Spirit into the temple: and when the parents brought in the child Jesus, to do for him after the custom of the law,
28. Then took he him up in his arms, and blessed God, and said,
29. Lord, now lettest thou thy servant depart in peace, according to thy word:
30. For mine eyes have seen thy salvation,
31. Which thou hast prepared before the face of all people;
32. A light to lighten the Gentiles, and the glory of thy people Israel.

36. And there was one Anna, a prophetess, the daughter of Phanuel, of the tribe of Aser: she was of a great age, and had lived with an husband seven years from her virginity;
37. And she was a widow of about fourscore and four years, which departed not from the temple, but served God with fastings and prayers night and day.

Luke 24:
51. And it came to pass, while he blessed them, he was parted from them, and carried up into heaven.
52. And they worshipped him, and returned to Jerusalem with great joy:
53. And were continually in the temple, praising and blessing God. Amen.

Acts 2:
46. And they, continuing daily with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, did eat their meat with gladness and singleness of heart,
47. Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved.

Acts 3:
1. Now Peter and John went up together into the temple at the hour of prayer, being the ninth hour.
2. And a certain man lame from his mother's womb was carried, whom they laid daily at the gate of the temple which is called Beautiful, to ask alms of them that entered into the temple;

The old covenant temple, the Levite priests, and everything associated with the temple were shadows of what was to come.

The reality is found in Christ Jesus.

(Col 2:17) These are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality, however, is found in Christ.

Stop living in Darby's fantasy world, and face reality.

 

[False Prophet]

The parable of the wheat and the tares where the tares are gathered out first; then the wheat is gathered into his barn. The tares are the evil ones while the wheat are those that do good.

 

[tetelestai]

The parable of the wheat and the tares where the tares are gathered out first; then the wheat is gathered into his barn. The tares are the evil ones while the wheat are those that do good.

That was fulfilled in 70AD.

Over one million unbelieving Jews were killed between 66AD - 70AD, the temple was destroyed, and the entire city was basically leveled.

The believing Jews fled to the mountains before the destruction took place because Jesus told them to do so when they saw Jerusalem surrounded.

(Luke 21:21) Then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains, let those in the city get out, and let those in the country not enter the city.

 

[Danoh]

The old covenant temple, the Levite priests, and everything associated with the temple were shadows of what was to come.

The reality is found in Christ Jesus.

(Col 2:17) These are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality, however, is found in Christ.

Stop living in Darby's fantasy world, and face reality.

You mean live in Teltelestai's delusion - "O Lord is that You in Rome's Army, that Tel's delusion has you marching in..." :rotfl:

 

[tetelestai]

You mean live in Teltelestai's delusion - "O Lord is that You in Rome's Army, that Tel's delusion has you marching in..." :rotfl:

The Apostle Paul tells you the reality is found in Christ Jesus.

Yet, you keep teaching about shadows.

 

[Danoh]

That was fulfilled in 70AD.

Over one million unbelieving Jews were killed between 66AD - 70AD, the temple was destroyed, and the entire city was basically leveled.

The believing Jews fled to the mountains before the destruction took place because Jesus told them to do so when they saw Jerusalem surrounded.

(Luke 21:21) Then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains, let those in the city get out, and let those in the country not enter the city.

A complete contradiction of Acts 1:7, which I am sure your system, having had to solve for the illogic its having relied on secular history created; having to solve for that by some other means other than simply taking the Word at its word, "solved" for with more unbelief.

You will never see where you went off - you never freed yourself from what you supposedly read in Darby and or other books "about" Dispensatonalism.

From there, you sought your answer in others' books "about" - and found that the Preterist system made sense to you because you never did learn how to sort the difference between "this makes sense to me, it is therefore sound" and "perhaps I ought examine first, this notion of mine that a thing is sound just because it makes sense to me..."

You've remained as clueless as when you first concluded "if a thing does not make sense to me, that means it is not sound..."

Never mind "perhaps I should examine how I examine a thing."

You are much like a bureaucrat through and through.

A by the book - book learned - individual who simply no longer knows how to think a thing through unless it fits his endless reading "about" a thing.

Your entire school is like that. "Look, its says so right here..."

To be fair, Dallas Theological also became that mess almost from day one... reading a thing through its "Dispensational" system, instead of outside of it; only holding to said system where it proves itself still standing after the fact of having examined a thing without prejudice, going in.

 

[Danoh]

The Apostle Paul tells you the reality is found in Christ Jesus.

Yet, you keep teaching about shadows.

Well, you did get the phrase "the Apostle Paul" right :chuckle:

 

[tetelestai]

A complete contradiction of Acts 1:7,

No it's not.

Jesus gave many details of what would happen between 30AD and 70AD.

Everything that Jesus said would happen, did happen, and it all happened before the generation of His contemporaries passed away.

Rome surrounded Jerusalem, thousands of Christians fled to Pella, then the Romans destroyed the temple so bad that not one stone was left standing upon another.

It all played out exactly how Jesus said it would play out.

 

[Danoh]

No it's not.

Jesus gave many details of what would happen between 30AD and 70AD.

Everything that Jesus said would happen, did happen, and it all happened before the generation of His contemporaries passed away.

Rome surrounded Jerusalem, thousands of Christians fled to Pella, then the Romans destroyed the temple so bad that not one stone was left standing upon another.

It all played out exactly how Jesus said it would play out.

Now you are simply lying.

You were not there.

And Josephus is well known for reading into some things.

Besides, it does not fit the prophecies.

Never mind. I have already addressed what your blind spot actually is... Not for you, as you have been blinded by it, but that others hopefully steer clear of how you ended up so blinded by your practice that to point it out to you is to point it out to a blind man.

The man actually believes he understood Dispensationalism from reading (supposedly) Darby.

Books learned people are all like that. They conclude that reading "about" a thing is having actually learned hot to approach examining it objectively.

To this they add the error that is their delusion that "others get things from books too."

This why this person - Tetelestai - continually rants against what his books based, books corroded mind cannot but conclude about those who "look like they read Darby, or sat under someone who did..."

His books based learning leads him to conclude others are books based.

One simply cannot get through to such an individual.

 

[tetelestai]

Now you are simply lying.

You were not there.

Seriously? that's the best you can do?

I've never meant anyone who denies that the Romans destroyed the temple in 70AD.

 

[Danoh]

Seriously? that's the best you can do?

I've never meant anyone who denies that the Romans destroyed the temple in 70AD.

That's the point - the Romans did.

Not God, or the Lord, in their number, as your Preterism purports in its distorted view of Israel's Prophecies as to all that.

 

[genuineoriginal]

Josephus is well known for reading into some things.

Besides, it does not fit the prophecies.

I believe that the great tribulation against the children of Israel began with the destruction of the temple in 70 CE and continued throughout the centuries until this time.

Could you explain the prophecies you believe do not fit that?

 

[tetelestai]

That's the point - the Romans did.

Not God, or the Lord, in their number, as your Preterism purports in its distorted view of Israel's Prophecies as to all that.

(Isaiah 19:1) A prophecy against Egypt: See, the LORD rides on a swift cloud and is coming to Egypt.....

In the above verse did the Lord literally ride a swift cloud into Egypt?

Or was it the Assyrian army?

 

[tetelestai]

That's the point - the Romans did.

So you think God had nothing to do with the Romans destroying the temple in 70AD?

 

[Danoh]

I believe that the great tribulation against the children of Israel began with the destruction of the temple in 70 CE and continued throughout the centuries until this time.

Could you explain the prophecies you believe do not fit that?

According to the angel Gabriel to the Israelite Mary in Luke 1:31-33; according to the Spirit through the Israelite Priest Zacharias to Israel in Luke 1:67-80; according to two of the Lord's Israelite disciples to Him in Luke 24: 21; according to the Lord, Moses, and Israel's Prophets to them in Luke 24: 25-27, and again to His Israelite Apostles in Luke 24: 44-47, what two-fold redemption or deliverance is the Lord referring to in Luke 21:28 and Matt. 10:23?

 

[Danoh]

So you think God had nothing to do with the Romans destroying the temple in 70AD?

Not in the way you hold to that.

Its part of where I differ with some of the other MADs on here in my understanding as to the sense of Rom. 1-3, Rom. 9-11, and Eph. 2.

My understanding is that in Romans 1-3, Paul is laying out why God turned in His wrath from Israel, just as He had temporarily done as to the Gentiles centuries earlier, Acts 17:30-31; Eph. 2:10-19.

How that both were now concluded under the power of sin (UNcircumcision), after which He then saved Paul in said UNcircumcision and sent him out with his "gospel of the UNcircumcision" Gal. 2:7-9, which Israel also resisted.

His having temporarily turned from Israel in His wrath just prior to saving Paul is what Paul is talking about in Romans 9-11; 1 Thess. 2:15-16, etc.

70AD was the result of that; of Israel having been left to its own recourse.

And that is not what is Prophesied. What is Prophesied was interrupted by this Mystery visit of God's during Israel's temporary blinding, Rom. 11:23-29, Acts 15:14-18.

 

[Danoh]

(Isaiah 19:1) A prophecy against Egypt: See, the LORD rides on a swift cloud and is coming to Egypt.....

In the above verse did the Lord literally ride a swift cloud into Egypt?

Or was it the Assyrian army?

What did Egypt end up an analogy of that the Assyrians also manifested in their own culture? And what shame did such nations represent as to Israel whenever Israel found itself their captives?

 

[tetelestai]

70AD was the result of that; of Israel having been left to its own recourse.

And that is not what is Prophesied. What is Prophesied was interrupted by this Mystery visit of God's during Israel's temporary blinding, Rom. 11:23-29, Acts 15:14-18.

(Luke 21:6) “As for what you see here, the time will come when not one stone will be left on another; every one of them will be thrown down.”

So, you don't think that what happened in 70AD is what Jesus prophesied in Luke 21:6?

 

[tetelestai]

What did Egypt end up an analogy of that the Assyrians also manifested in their own culture? And what shame did such nations represent as to Israel whenever Israel found itself their captives?

That has nothing to do with the question.

The question was whether it was literally God, or the Assyrian army who rode a swift cloud into Egypt.