ECT Scriptures against the false pre-tribulation rapture doctrine
- Thread starter ZacharyB
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Still waiting for a Darby Follower to show us where in the Bible it says mortal people will live with immortal people?
All you have to do is tell us what Paul meant when he said the following:
(1 Cor 10:11) These things happened to them as examples and were written down as warnings for us, on whom the culmination of the ages has come.
Prove me wrong, and tell us what "the culmination of the ages" was?
Do you not believe Paul's Gospel?
What happens if one's never heard of Darby? Does that throw you
off a bit? I never heard of Darby before hearing about him from
you.
It proves that Dispensationalists are some of the laziest Christians out there.
Basically, you guys adhere to a belief system invented by John Nelson Darby, but have no knowledge of how your belief system came into existence.
No, I expect it.
I am more than happy to teach Darby Followers such as yourself the history of Dispensationalism.
If I parroted some guy, and believed everything the guy invented like you do, I would want to know as much as possible about the guy.
I believe in Paul's Gospel (The Grace Gospel given to Paul
by the Ascended Jesus Christ) However, Christ has yet to
return. You believe Christ returned in 70AD which is ludicrous.
Ok, then tell us what Paul meant when Paul said "the culmination of the ages"?
(1 Cor 10:11) These things happened to them as examples and were written down as warnings for us, on whom the culmination of the ages has come.
Surely someone who believes Paul's Gospel like you do should be able to explain this to us?
TeT, you seem to have more faith in this Darby then everyone else. You
mention his name constantly. Is he your version of the Kardashians? They
get tons of attention as does your Darby friend.
mention his name constantly. Is he your version of the Kardashians? They
get tons of attention as does your Darby friend.
Nope.
John Nelson Darby was a false teacher along with Joseph Smith, Charles Taze Russell, Mary Baker Eddy, Ellen White and the other false teachers from the "Age of the Cults" in the mid 1800's.
I'm here to show Dispensationalists (Darby Followers) such as yourself what a false teacher Darby was.
STP gave you an adequate answer but adequate answers are never adequate for you.
Of course, you believe that the Lord's resurrection was only for show anyway and not permanent. You obviously don't believe in the restoration of all things as spoken by the Lord.
We really don't take you seriously, so...your big obsessive anti-Darby campaign is just a joke to us.
I asked for where in the Bible it says mortal people will live with immortal people in the future.
Not only did STP not show where in the Bible it says such a thing, I don't even agree that the body Jesus had during His 40 days after His resurrection was an immortal body (Glorified Body as described in 1 Cor 15)
Do you really believe an immortal body has holes in the hands and feet?
No, it is you guys who don't believe in the restoration of ALL THINGS. You think there are going to be mortal people in the kingdom of God, not me.
I believe everyone who has faith will have a new glorified body in the kingdom of God. These bodies won't have holes in them, nor will there be mortal people living with them.
As expected, no Darby Follower can explain what the Apostle Paul meant in the following verse:
(1 Cor 10:11) These things happened to them as examples and were written down as warnings for us, on whom the culmination of the ages has come.
The writer of Hebrews said the same thing the Apostle Paul did:
Heb 9:26) Otherwise Christ would have had to suffer many times since the creation of the world. But he has appeared once for all at the culmination of the ages to do away with sin by the sacrifice of himself.
(1 Cor 10:11) These things happened to them as examples and were written down as warnings for us, on whom the culmination of the ages has come.
The writer of Hebrews said the same thing the Apostle Paul did:
Heb 9:26) Otherwise Christ would have had to suffer many times since the creation of the world. But he has appeared once for all at the culmination of the ages to do away with sin by the sacrifice of himself.
lifeisgood
New member
SaulToPaul 2
Well-known member
how many ends are there?
11 Now all these things happened unto them for examples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come.
Least ways, not to your Preterist satisfaction, anyway.
In this post I will address two issues - your above assertion, and its root: your Preterist reading into things; which you read into those two passages.
In Hebrews 2:5 the writer of Hebrews wrote of “the world to come.”
Then, just after Heb. 9:26’s “once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself,” he wrote in 9:27 of how that Christ shall “appear the second time without sin unto salvation.”
Neither in the sin of men - Rome's Military, as you assert - nor in its might's destruction.
Rather; not only "without sin" but "unto salvation" and there is a good and a bad about that - at - the - same - time.
The Apostle Paul, on the other hand, is basically asserting something similar, as to the Lord's 1st Advent.
Towards that, he makes use of an example similar to that of the other writers of Scripture.
What they are both asserting is the validity of each their Word as to Christ's 1st Coming - "the fullness of time" Gal. 4:4, that all previous ages had been building up to.
That what all previous ages had been building up to - the first coming of the Lord to die for sin - had culminated in said 1st Coming; that that was now not only their past, but their present reality and thus, was no laughing matter.
Both in Prophecy and Mystery, the expectation expected of the saint is an any moment expectation of the Lord's return. In both, none know the hour, until it is upon them, 1 Thess. 4 in contrast to 2 Thess. 2, etc.
Moving on, we read in 1 Cor. 10:
9. Neither let us tempt Christ, as some of them also tempted, and were destroyed of serpents.
10. Neither murmur ye, as some of them also murmured, and were destroyed of the destroyer.
11. Now all these things happened unto them for ensamples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come.
12. Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall.
The writer of Hebrews says something similar - Hebrews 2:
1. Therefore we ought to give the more earnest heed to the things which we have heard, lest at any time we should let them slip.
2. For if the word spoken by angels was stedfast, and every transgression and disobedience received a just recompence of reward;
3. How shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation; which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed unto us by them that heard him;
4. God also bearing them witness, both with signs and wonders, and with divers miracles, and gifts of the Holy Ghost, according to his own will?
5. For unto the angels hath he not put in subjection the world to come, whereof we speak.
Hebrews 9:
25. Nor yet that he should offer himself often, as the high priest entereth into the holy place every year with blood of others;
26. For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.
27. And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:
28. So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.
My problem with your "the Lord returned in 70AD; in the person of Rome's Military Might" view is that the writer of Hebrews did not hold to the Lord coming in the person of said military might in destruction, as you erroneously assert, any more than any of their prophets had held to that.
Anymore than one of his own: the Apostle Peter, was asserting, in Acts 3:
18. But those things, which God before had shewed by the mouth of all his prophets, that Christ should suffer, he hath so fulfilled.
There it is again - what the ends the ages had sought to culminate in - the 1st Coming of the Lord to put away sin by the sacrifice of Himself.
How does this play out in Israel's case?
Contrary to your Preterist understanding - there is both the good and the bad - at - the - same - time.
The good aspect:
19. Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord.
20. And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you:
21. Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.
22. For Moses truly said unto the fathers, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear in all things whatsoever he shall say unto you.
Verse 22's bold there is Hebrews 2's:
17. Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.
18. For in that he himself hath suffered being tempted, he is able to succour them that are tempted.
And in the same vein that the writer of Hebrews relates in Hebrews 10:
27. And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:
28. So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.
So, Peter, has been relating in Acts 3 the good and the bad as to this same issue.
As Prophesied, He showed up; one of His own brethren. To die for them; rose again, and the second time he comes, He will be without sin - to deliver those of His brethren who believe on Him from sin; but also, to destroy those of His brethren in sin who do not believe on Him - Acts 3:
The bad aspect:
23. And it shall come to pass, that every soul, which will not hear that prophet, shall be destroyed from among the people.
The good aspect:
24. Yea, and all the prophets from Samuel and those that follow after, as many as have spoken, have likewise foretold of these days.
25. Ye are the children of the prophets, and of the covenant which God made with our fathers, saying unto Abraham, And in thy seed shall all the kindreds of the earth be blessed.
26. Unto you first God, having raised up his Son Jesus, sent him to bless you, in turning away every one of you from his iniquities.
Wick Stick
Well-known member
According to Jewish prophecy - nine.
One for each of the first 9 ages of the world. The 10th age has no end.
#notsureifkidding
Hi and just glad to answer this question for you !!
Those that enter the Millennial Kingdom will be IMMORTAL and will come to see Abraham , Isaac and Jacob in the Kingdom of Heaven an dthey have been resurrected you see and be Kings and Priests forever Rev 1:6 !!
But in Matt 25:32-46 , and these are all Gentiles and these are the ones of Rom 11:19 , and 21 !!
dan p
This is where KJVO messes you up.
It's supposed to be "ends of the ages".
"ends of the world" makes no sense.
The KJV took the Greek word "αἰών" which means "ages" and translated it "world", whereas the Greek word for "world" is "cosmos"
The book of Matthew proves the KJV is wrong. Matthew uses both Greek words to differentiate between "world" and "ages".
For example:
(Matt 24:3 KJV) And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?
Here is the correct translation:
(Matt 24:3 NIV) As Jesus was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to him privately. “Tell us,” they said, “when will this happen, and what will be the sign of your coming and of the end of the age?”
Even if we use your Futuristic eschatology, "end of the world" makes no sense.