Ph.D in Pot & the G.H.W. Bush Legacy

[ok doser]

Are you comfortable with approved pharmaceuticals that have known dangerous side effects? Because many of them do.

yes indeed

but we have very little understanding about how marijuana interacts with prostaglandin analogs, beta blockers or Alpha-adrenergic agonists (all commonly used to treat glaucoma) or any of the myriad of chemo drugs

and now, with recreational marijuana use being legalized, open that up to the full cornucopia of pharmaceuticals currently being prescribed

as i've mentioned elsewhere - medical professionals in the future will be building careers on teasing apart the effects of this poorly considered change in public policy

 

[ok doser]

You're not sure that tobacco can/can't provide health benefits?!

:doh:

Hint, it doesn't.

:freak:

not as cut and dried as you might think:

https://www.tobaccoinaustralia.org.au/chapter-3-health-effects/3-28-health-benefits-of-smoking-
https://www.livescience.com/15115-5-health-benefits-smoking-disease.html
https://www.healthline.com/health/smoking/effects-on-body
https://tonic.vice.com/en_us/article/xw7agz/four-surprising-potential-health-benefits-of-nicotine

 

[ok doser]

A single inhale of a joint isn't going to make you "high" ...

in my personal experience, in some cases it can - i've seen it happen - a single pull from a joint and the person in question was unsafe to drive

or tie her shoes

or stand up without falling down and giggling

 

[JudgeRightly]

Is second-hand tobacco smoke harmful to breathe?

Yup.

A single inhale of a joint isn't going to make you "high" any more than a single swig from a pint of beer is going to make you drunk.

From https://www.drugabuse.gov/publications/research-reports/marijuana/what-are-marijuana-effects

When marijuana is smoked, THC and other chemicals in the plant pass from the lungs into the bloodstream, which rapidly carries them throughout the body to the brain. The person begins to experience effects almost immediately.

:think:

You're not sure that tobacco can/can't provide health benefits?!

:doh:

Hint, it doesn't.

[emoji33]:

Where have I ever said they aren't able to provide health benefits? (Hint: I never have.)

In fact, I've said the opposite, or, rather, quoted someone trustworthy who says that alcohol (at the very least) can have benefits when drank responsibly.

No longer drink only water, but use a little wine for your stomach’s sake and your frequent infirmities. - 1 Timothy 5:23 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1Timothy5:23&version=NKJV

:think:

My position is and has been that it should be illegal to get drunk or high, and any substances that, through the normal use of them, make one so, should be strictly controlled substances, only available through prescription, and, patients should not be allowed to self-medicate.

 

[JudgeRightly]

not as cut and dried as you might think:

https://www.tobaccoinaustralia.org.au/chapter-3-health-effects/3-28-health-benefits-of-smoking-
https://www.livescience.com/15115-5-health-benefits-smoking-disease.html
https://www.healthline.com/health/smoking/effects-on-body
https://tonic.vice.com/en_us/article/xw7agz/four-surprising-potential-health-benefits-of-nicotine
pdf file with a ridiculously long address

Pdf can't be opened... At least not on my phone

 

[ok doser]

Pdf can't be opened... At least not on my phone

now it doesn't work for me either - i'll delete it - pretty sure it covered the same ground as the others

 

[Arthur Brain]

Yup.
From https://www.drugabuse.gov/publications/research-reports/marijuana/what-are-marijuana-effects

When marijuana is smoked, THC and other chemicals in the plant pass from the lungs into the bloodstream, which rapidly carries them throughout the body to the brain. The person begins to experience effects almost immediately.

:think:

That doesn't say that a single toke on a joint makes somebody "high" JR. The effects of smoking cannabis are certainly quicker to take effect than the ingestion of alcohol but that's separate.

Where have I ever said they aren't able to provide health benefits? (Hint: I never have.)

In fact, I've said the opposite, or, rather, quoted someone trustworthy who says that alcohol (at the very least) can have benefits when drank responsibly.

No longer drink only water, but use a little wine for your stomach’s sake and your frequent infirmities. - 1 Timothy 5:23 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1Timothy5:23&version=NKJV

:think:

My position is and has been that it should be illegal to get drunk or high, and any substances that, through the normal use of them, make one so, should be strictly controlled substances, only available through prescription, and, patients should not be allowed to self-medicate.

Eh? This wasn't about the benefits of alcohol in moderation but smoking tobacco. There are no health benefits to that which you seemed to be bemusingly unsure about.

 

[ok doser]

... smoking tobacco. There are no health benefits to that ...

wrong

https://www.tobaccoinaustralia.org.au/chapter-3-health-effects/3-28-health-benefits-of-smoking-
https://www.livescience.com/15115-5-health-benefits-smoking-disease.html
https://www.healthline.com/health/smoking/effects-on-body
https://tonic.vice.com/en_us/article/xw7agz/four-surprising-potential-health-benefits-of-nicotine

 

[Arthur Brain]

in my personal experience, in some cases it can - i've seen it happen - a single pull from a joint and the person in question was unsafe to drive

or tie her shoes

or stand up without falling down and giggling

Then you're not talking about a standard joint then. Either that or your friend had an unusually low tolerance to the stuff or something. That can happen with drink.

Otherwise, a single inhalation of a spliff is not going to make someone "high".

 

[Arthur Brain]

wrong

https://www.tobaccoinaustralia.org.au/chapter-3-health-effects/3-28-health-benefits-of-smoking-
https://www.livescience.com/15115-5-health-benefits-smoking-disease.html
https://www.healthline.com/health/smoking/effects-on-body
https://tonic.vice.com/en_us/article/xw7agz/four-surprising-potential-health-benefits-of-nicotine

Uh, did you even read the third link?

Those are about as lame as it gets and underline just how deleterious to the health smoking is.

 

[ok doser]

Uh, did you even read the third link?

yes, i did

did you even read the other three links?

Those are about as lame as it gets...

to a health care professional, they raise fascinating questions as to causal mechanisms and potential therapies

... and underline just how deleterious to the health smoking is.

never claimed otherwise

 

[ok doser]

... a single inhalation of a spliff is not going to make someone "high".

would you want your neurosurgeon to take a toke before he started opening your cranium?

would you want your kid's schoolbus driver to take a toke before leaving the loading zone?

would you want the pilot of the jet you were taking on vacation to take a toke before takeoff?

would you want your military staff to take a toke before operating a weapon system?

would you want the mechanic assembling the braking system on your car to take a toke before starting?

 

[Arthur Brain]

would you want your neurosurgeon to take a toke before he started opening your cranium?

would you want your kid's schoolbus driver to take a toke before leaving the loading zone?

would you want the pilot of the jet you were taking on vacation to take a toke before takeoff?

would you want your military staff to take a toke before operating a weapon system?

would you want the mechanic assembling the braking system on your car to take a toke before starting?

I wouldn't want anyone doing a job to be so unprofessional as to be taking a single swig from a hipflask or toke off a joint. My concerns would be why they're doing so in work time and not in down time.

 

[Arthur Brain]

yes, i did

did you even read the other three links?



to a health care professional, they raise fascinating questions as to causal mechanisms and potential therapies




never claimed otherwise

So where in that third link are there any so called "benefits" to smoking?

:freak:

This is lame as and you know it.

 

[ok doser]

So where in that third link are there any so called "benefits" to smoking?

there aren't any

did you look at the other three links?

 

[ok doser]

... a single inhalation of a spliff is not going to make someone "high".

I wouldn't want anyone doing a job to be so unprofessional as to be taking a single swig from a hipflask or toke off a joint.

why would you see it as "unprofessional" if it's not going to make them high?

would you have the same concerns if the neurosurgeon/schoolbus driver/pilot/soldier/mechanic was taking a drag on an e-cigarette?

 

[Arthur Brain]

there aren't any

did you look at the other three links?

So why did you post it?

:freak:

Yes, I did and what they all have in common is how bad smoking is for the health and that doing so is a very bad idea. They're all at pains to point out that even a marginal chance of avoiding one condition isn't worth the risk of the susceptibility to a plethora of others. None of these so called "benefits" have been proven either although the hazardous effects of smoking on health sure have been.

As before, lame as...

 

[Arthur Brain]

why would you see it as "unprofessional" if it's not going to make them high?

would you have the same concerns if the neurosurgeon/schoolbus driver/pilot/soldier/mechanic was taking a drag on an e-cigarette?

Because if they can't keep alcohol/dope away from their job then it's likely that they're dependant on substances where that swig/toke is one on top of another. Do the math. No, I wouldn't have any such concerns over an e-cigarette or even a normal one beforehand.

 

[ok doser]

Yes, I did and what they all have in common is ....

...that, surprisingly, there are health benefits related to smoking/tobacco use

for example, Parkinson's:

Nicotine Could Help Fight Parkinson’s Disease Epidemiological data has long shown that smokers—while way more likely to get cancer, heart disease, stroke, and more—are actually less likely to develop Parkinson’s disease. Because of the close association nicotine has with cigarettes and their ills, it’s been tough for researchers to get funding for human studies, but years of research on other mammals has yielded some pretty positive results and led to a large trial funded by the Michael J. Fox Foundation that’s currently underway. “Over the years, people have tested this idea in mice and rats and monkeys, and we found that nicotine can protect against the damage that occurs in Parkinson’s disease in the brains of monkeys,” says Maryka Quik, a former senior research scientist at The Parkinson's Institute. Of the dozens of studies Quik has worked on in this area, one of the best known found that monkeys suffering from dyskinetic movements—involuntary movements common in Parkinson’s —experienced a 60 to 70 percent reduction in movements when treated with nicotine-laced water. This could be because the nicotine molecule fits into receptors for the neurotransmitter acetylcholine, which may give it the capacity to moderate other families of receptors in the brain. “In Parkinson’s disease there is a degeneration of neurons, and nicotine has been shown to increase some growth factors in the brain,” Quik says. “So it’s possible that nicotine can partially prevent the degeneration that happens in the brain by increasing these growth factors.” https://tonic.vice.com/en_us/article/xw7agz/four-surprising-potential-health-benefits-of-nicotine

Smoking lowers risk of Parkinson's disease Numerous studies have identified the uncanny inverse relationship between smoking and Parkinson's disease. Long-term smokers are somehow protected against Parkinson's, and it's not because smokers die of other things earlier. [10 Easy Paths to Self-Destruction] The most recent, well-conducted study was published in a March 2010 issue of the journal Neurology. Far from determining a cause for the protective effect, these researchers found that the number of years spent smoking, more so than the number of cigarettes smoked daily, mattered more for a stronger protective effect. Harvard researchers were among the first to provide convincing evidence that smokers were less likely to develop Parkinson's. In a study published in Neurology in March 2007, these researchers found the protective effect wanes after smokers quit. And they concluded, in their special scientific way, that they didn't have a clue as to why. https://www.livescience.com/15115-5-health-benefits-smoking-disease.html

3.28.2 Parkinson's disease An association between smoking and a lower incidence of Parkinson's disease has been observed in a number of studies.9, 10 An analysis of longitudinal studies found a protective effect against Parkinson's disease for current and former smokers compared with those who had never smoked; the risk of Parkinson's disease was reduced by about half among ever smokers (RR 0.51; 95% CI, 0.43–0.61) and this protective effect was more pronounced among current smokers, where the risk was about one-third that of never smokers (RR 0.35; 95% CI, 0.26–0.47).10 Similar findings of a protective effect for Parkinson's disease were also reported from a case–control study conducted in Japan.9 Nicotine is thought to be the chemical in tobacco smoke mostly likely to be implicated in this finding, but there may be other chemicals or compounds involved.11-13 Based on data from 2004–05 we can derive theoretical estimates that about 97 deaths from Parkinson's disease are prevented by smoking in Australia annually.2 Finally, recent research also suggests that nicotine can improve compromised semantic processing in Parkinson's disease, and also influence semantic processing in healthy older individuals;14 however, the 2014 US Surgeon General’s report found that controlled trials of the effects of nicotine on cognitive function in patients with Parkin¬son’s disease are limited, with inconsistent findings.6 https://www.tobaccoinaustralia.org.au/chapter-3-health-effects/3-28-health-benefits-of-smoking-

 

[ok doser]

Because if they can't keep (dope) away from their job...

but why would they think they should keep dope away from their job if it wasn't going to make them high?

after all, artie tells them, confidently: "a single inhalation of a spliff is not going to make someone high"


why shouldn't that neurosurgeon/schoolbus driver/pilot/soldier/mechanic take a single toke on a joint if it's not going to make them high?