I don’t consider children “wicked.”
I believe in Original Blessing, not Original Sin.
That doctrine of a basic sinfulness of humanity comes from St. Augustine, centuries after Jesus.
New Study Contradicts Religious Bias
- Thread starter PureX
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I believe in Original Blessing, not Original Sin.
That doctrine of a basic sinfulness of humanity comes from St. Augustine, centuries after Jesus.
Infantile commentary, I think.
You seem unable to think in ways that recognize patterns. Many times the details in two different subjects are different, but the overall structure or framework is the same.
Again, *sigh*, authoritarian, patriarchal, obedience-based family dynamics are more common in Muslin and Christian families. This is true. This is evidence. This is fact.
If you’ve ever given any thought to the radical attacks on the family by Jesus, this is why.
How?
If I myself felt condemned by such a research project I might use every tool in my box to deny it. For all of us, having to confront out own contradictions is a serious and profoundly discomforting experience.
Take it from me; I’ve been there.
I don’t mind telling even a psychologist like yourself that I was made more than acquainted with the Milgram research. We must have spent a month studying it in a psychology class that was probably similar to your own degree curriculum.
What did your own training teach you about the study?
Lon
Well-known member
:nono: Genesis 6:5 Be a "BIBLE" believer, not a believer in the traditions of fallible men. The time is coming and is already come, when true worshippers must worship God in Spirit AND truth. John 4:23-24
And yet produce a more altruistic adult... :think:
Seems like 'free-association' liberal theology to me. You'd have to really spell this one out, but it has earmarks of very liberal interpretation out of the gate.
It is difficult to believe in a tradition and yet at the same time believe in its opposite.
The Bible is a complex weave of differing traditions, theologies, agendas and metaphor. It is not “factually correct” in all instances but I see it as true, nevertheless. I take the discrepancies and contradictions seriously because they come from inspired human beings.
How do children learn to be altruistic when they are hit, put down, disrespected and treated unfairly?
If I child does not deal with how s/he was treated in childhood, then they continue to mindlessly act out their pain on other people.
I have long been surprised when Christians ardently claim that Jesus never preached against the family values in his day.
I am not going to lead you by the hand when you research the Bible.
We have all had enough of this from the clergy and authoritarian types.
Confront the new and remember the old: Bible study actually means “studying the Bible."
ok doser
lifeguard at the cement pond
he was the only child of that era who suffered horrible abuse?
Of course not. Those who were raised in authoritarian, tyrannical homes were only too happy to follow their national “Head of the Family” dictator and emulate the dad.
You may not be aware of the pedagogy used in the German nation.
Parents were expected to beat their children without mercy and to view the child as filled with some spirit of pure evil that had to be driven out.
Hitler was beaten by his grandfather virtually daily. He forced himself to ignore the pain and stand there and take it without protest. He was basically destroying the natural empathy for the suffering.
The German method of training dogs was the same. Only negative reinforcement by beating them.
It is no accident that Germany was referred to the “Fatherland.”
Daddy is always right and when he beats or criticizes me, then I am wrong and must suffer.
Lon
Well-known member
It isn't just Christian homes at that point. I have been to a LOT of schools as a substitute teacher before I was hired on to a permanent job. I also worked at a Christian school. The kids in that school were not abused.
And statistics prove Christians out-give their counterparts and evangelicals out-give their other Christian counter-parts.
You should start a thread on it. It will get attention and discussion for sure. I am aware that He came to set fathers against brother, and brothers against brothers, but it doesn't mean anti-family. It means "Christian."
Well, there went that thread. I don't need to be led by the hand. I need to understand, with substantiation, what you are saying. I "can't" argue it with you until you present your case. I have a firm enough grasp of scripture to either correct you, or walk through it with you BUT you haven't explained what you mean or used example for anyone to debate or agree.
Again, these gloss-over comments aren't really productive and are easily dismissed because they don't really mean anything. There is a great need for a LOT more context or else it is just an exercise in mind reading, whether 'led by the hand' or not.
ok doser
lifeguard at the cement pond
then perhaps it wasn't the horrible abuse that led to the abuse of his nation and countrymen and women
perhaps there were other factors at play
Hitler's and Stalin’s henchmen were victims of their upbringing.
They belonged to a generation of children who had been exposed to brutal physical correction and humiliation and who later vented their pent-up feelings of anger and helpless rage on innocent victims.
Safe in the knowledge that they were doing so with their leader's blessing, they were finally able to give free rein to those feelings without risk of punishment.
“Daddy does it so it is alright."
They belonged to a generation of children who had been exposed to brutal physical correction and humiliation and who later vented their pent-up feelings of anger and helpless rage on innocent victims.
Safe in the knowledge that they were doing so with their leader's blessing, they were finally able to give free rein to those feelings without risk of punishment.
“Daddy does it so it is alright."
PureX
Well-known member
I'm going to keep correcting this myth, whenever I see it. Christians do not give more generously, because they demand things in return for what they give. Mostly, they demand the pretense that the recipient is 'towing the Christian line' on how to think, and how act, and how to live.
Christians don't give to the poor, they pay the poor to listen to Christian sermons, and say Christian prayers, and act grateful to the Christian God. And if they don't pretend to repent, they get cut off. That isn't 'giving'. That's buying.
ok doser
lifeguard at the cement pond
perhaps you don't understand the word "generously"
| generous adjective 1. liberal in giving or sharing; unselfish: a generous patron of the arts; a generous gift. 3. large; abundant; ample: |
cite?
oh, i see
you're just having fun redefining words to suit you
i believe lewis carroll wrote about that :think:
| “When I use a word,’ Humpty Dumpty said in rather a scornful tone, ‘it means just what I choose it to mean — neither more nor less.’ |
Notice where the axis of separation is drawn: it is between the young and the old, the children against their parents and inlaws.
It is the family in which we first learn to love as well as to hate.
The family was set up on a pedestal in Jessus’ day. A powerful elder patriarch ruling over a household with the power of life and death. It was not unusual for a parent to scapegoat a weaker or ill member of the clan. The ruling father had the final word on all decisions, including where his inheritance would go.
Jesus told a follower who was on his way to the sacred ceremony of a family funeral was told “Let the dead bury the dead.”
When Jesus was praised by a woman who blessed him because he was born and suckled by a mother, he immediately countered by "Blessed rather are those who hear the word of God and keep it!”
His own family grabbed him tried to hold him because others said he was insane and they believed them.
A man asked Jesus “Who are my brothers? Who is my mother?”
And stretching out his hand toward his disciples, he said, "Here are my mother and my brothers!
For whoever does the will of my Father in heaven is my brother, and sister, and mother.”
He also advised people to hate their family. Children should murder their parents. He predicted an apocalypse when family members would kill each other. Men should castrate themselves if they choose. He said to call no man one’s father on earth.
And every one who has left houses or brothers or sisters or father or mother or children or lands, for my name's sake, will receive a hundredfold, and inherit eternal life.
But Jesus DID call the children to him. Only the loving and the innocent can inherit the kingdom.
And notice his parable of the just family: the prodigal is welcomed back to his father with a feast. The elder brother cannot stop from being angry and jealous but the father comforts him as well. He shows no favoritism.
What do you have in mind when you say this?
PureX
Well-known member
Christian charity in general. Christians don't want their charity mixed in with others, because they can't control it. So why do they want so much control? Because they want to control the people their supposedly trying to help.
Christians think controlling other people is helping them. And conversely, they think allowing people to decide for themselves what will help them, harms them.
Christians don't really "give" to others at all. They buy control over others, and call it "giving".
Can you give any actual examples? Broad-brushing all of Christianity doesn't help. I won't say that what you're talking about doesn't exist, but I think there is much charity by Christians that isn't tied to confessions or obedience, etc.
ok doser
lifeguard at the cement pond
i wonder if purex can name a single non-Christian charity in which funds are given to people in need with no expectations or requirements
he lives in a strange little world, doesn't he?
Lon
Well-known member
I provided links. You? :nono:
Gossip is a sin. Trying to make your erroneous impressions vocal as if they are fact is a sin. You are flat-out, sinning against God and His church. The Salvation Army is an evangelical institution. The foodbank I work at is evangelical. The rescue mission is evangelical....
After that, if you think that sharing Christ with a person isn't what is best for people, you are no Christian and should change your moniker.
This is hate. "Give me your food and $ but shut up because I don't want to hear your garbage and I don't respect you for saying something with the money and food I'm taking from you regardless." Bitter-much? You sound like a flamer.
I have a right to tell you that Jesus Christ changed my heart in such a way that it makes other people important, in hopes 1) that you will have the greatest thing and Person in your life that has happened in mine, and 2) so that you will understand why I out-give all others.
You are frankly, crazy, to think 'no-strings-attached' somehow removes the sacrifice of out-giving all others in our time, talents, and money. Flat out crazy... and a liar. You are making a blanket statement in bitterness that isn't true. I have never 'preached' at people at the foodbank. There is a devotion at the beginning but people that don't want to hear that come afterwards. They don't 'have' to stay and hear that. We are trying, however, to give them water that one would never thirst again. Again, you should REALLY re-think your 'christian (other)' description if you hate the beautiful saving message of Jesus Christ.
If I take care of only your immediate physical need and neglect your greater spiritual need, what's the point? It is BECAUSE we adamantly believe that a person's need is Jesus, that we confess Him before men. Matthew 10:33 If you keep it up, you are not going to make it Purex.