Katrina Damage

[Yuan]

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/08/30/n...&en=e30e846673ab272b&ei=5094&partner=homepage
NEW ORLEANS, Aug. 30 - The waters of swollen Lake Pontchartrain poured into this sunken city today through a gaping hole in a storm-damaged levee, as emergency workers labored to stanch the flow and used boats and helicopters to rescue hundreds of people stranded on rooftops.

If Hurricane Katrina did not break the levies via winds/storm surge who/what did?

http://www.cnn.com/2005/WEATHER/09/01/Katrina.superdome.ap/index.html
"We are out here like pure animals. We don't have help," the Rev. Issac Clark, 68, said outside the New Orleans Convention Center, where corpses lay in the open and evacuees complained that they were dropped off and given nothing..."They've been teasing us with buses for four days," Edwards said.

Why is the government deliberately not rescuing people? Why are "thousands stranded?” How is it possible that Army troops can be moved into the city put victims are not evacuated? Aren't numerous "assets" available ....helicopters, amphibious craft and buses? Is the government trying to foster "ethnic unrest?”

http://www.uscg.mil/hq/g-cp/history/Chronology_Feb.html
1952- During a severe "nor’easter" off the New England coast, the T-2 tankers SS Fort Mercer and SS Pendleton broke in half. U .S. Coast Guard vessels, aircraft, and lifeboat stations, working under severe winter conditions, rescued and removed 62 persons from the foundering ships or from the water with a loss of only five lives. Five Coast Guardsmen earned the Gold Lifesaving Medal, four earned the Silver Lifesaving Medal, and 15 earned the Coast Guard Commendation Medal.

1990- Two Coast Guard Air Station Houston crews were the first to receive the Igor I. Sikorsky Award for Humanitarian Service. The award was presented by the Helicopter Association International at their Dallas convention. The crews were honored for their rescue of seven fishermen during Hurricane Chantal last year. They flew through driving rain, winds in excess of 65 miles-per-hour, thunderstorms and squalls to rescue the men from their capsized boat.

1960- A Coast Guard R5D aircraft from Honolulu dropped a pump to the Japanese training vessel Toyama Maru, which had radioed that it was taking on water and was in danger of sinking off Palmyra Island. The pump controlled flooding until the arrival of USCGC Bering Strait, whose crew made repairs to the Japanese vessel, using 2,500 pounds of sand and cement parachuted by a Honolulu-based SC-130B plane.

http://www.record-eagle.com/feech/storm/three.htm
....He's cruising at 300 feet beneath a heavy cloud cover, backing winds are pushing the aircraft into a 200-knot sprint and rain bands are swinging across his path like slamming doors.

http://www.boatsafe.com/nauticalknowhow/inflate.htm
Coast Guard statistics show fatality rates have dropped over the past 25 years due to, in part, the use of inherently buoyant PFDs.....:
Personal flotation devices are classified into various types based on the environment in which they are designed to perform and their intended use.

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2004/01/0121_040121_tvcoastguardrescue.html
Dangerous Rescues Are Part of Job for Coast Guard

If we can "land on Mars,” launch satellites, fight WWII, Korea, Vietnam, Iraq.....certainly the government can move stranded people to safety, no matter the conditions! And repair broken levies regardless of the difficulty. I pray that our government will rescue its citizens...... but I guess the government has another agenda.

 

[Army of One]

If Hurricane Katrina did not break the levies via winds/storm surge who/what did?

Why is the government deliberately not rescuing people? Why are "thousands stranded?” How is it possible that Army troops can be moved into the city put victims are not evacuated? Aren't numerous "assets" available ....helicopters, amphibious craft and buses? Is the government trying to foster "ethnic unrest?”


If we can "land on Mars,” launch satellites, fight WWII, Korea, Vietnam, Iraq.....certainly the government can move stranded people to safety, no matter the conditions! And repair broken levies regardless of the difficulty. I pray that our government will rescue its citizens...... but I guess the government has another agenda.

Huh? So, what is this other agenda that the government has?

 

[Gaviidae]

I'm puzzled why you all care so much about this looting. I mean given the whole picture, the looting seems pretty trivial, really.

They had to shut down rescue operations because of "this looting". I don't think that's trivial. Those are precious hours.

I even heard on FOX or CNN that there have been 3 or 4 murders and 6 rapes inside the Superdome. Don't know if it's true. I know there are reports of armed "gangs" going around raping in the city. :madmad:

 

[BillyBob]

:mrt:

 

[Yuan]

They had to shut down rescue operations because of "this looting". I don't think that's trivial. Those are precious hours.

There are gunshots in Baghdad probably daily but somehow this government appears to accomplish its objectives there. Hasn't martial law already been declared in New Orleans and the military there on patrol?

 

[Gaviidae]

There are gunshots in Baghdad probably daily but somehow this government appears to accomplish its objectives there. Hasn't martial law already been declared in New Orleans and the military there on patrol?

The National Guard wasn't there yet when they had to stop rescue operations. And I think it's sad that they had to be called at all. At least called to stop the violence rather than called to plug the hole in the canal and transport people to safety.

 

[Jujubee]

well what about the banks there, have people started robbing them yet?

 

[PureX]

They had to shut down rescue operations because of "this looting".

No they didn't. The looting had nothing to do with the rescue operations.

I even heard on FOX or CNN that there have been 3 or 4 murders and 6 rapes inside the Superdome. Don't know if it's true.

Rumors will abound under such circumstances.

 

[PureX]

You've got to be kidding!

Here we are in the middle of one of the worst natural disasters in US history and the first reaction of a selected group of people is to steal, pillage, plunder, riot, kill, rape, destroy property and shoot helicopters.

That seems trivial to you?

I was asking about the looting, not murder. So what if some people are looting? Why do you care?

 

[PureX]

If we can "land on Mars,” launch satellites, fight WWII, Korea, Vietnam, Iraq.....certainly the government can move stranded people to safety, no matter the conditions! And repair broken levies regardless of the difficulty. I pray that our government will rescue its citizens...... but I guess the government has another agenda.

Many of the resources that we would normally use in such a disaster are tied up in Iraq. The ugly truth is that our own people are dying because our military is busy fighting Bush's pointless war on Iraq.

 

[PureX]

well what about the banks there, have people started robbing them yet?

They won't be able to get into the vaults. Doing that takes planning and special resources and skills that would obviously not be available to the people doing this looting.

 

[wickwoman]

I don't expect them to either but I would if I were Sam Walton. I'm not sure if you thought I was being sarcastic or not, but I wasn't. I think Wal Mart should do that. It'd be good publicity besides being good humanitarians.

Oh, Sam Walton might have. But Walmart is a public corporation now. And their bottom line is the issue. I think it would be great too. And wonderful publicity. Heck, I might even start back shopping there. I boycotted Walmart quite some time ago.

 

[wickwoman]

But some of the "looting" was a matter of survival. One report said a manager of a Wal-Mart opened the doors of his store and told residents to take anything they needed.[/b]

This guy doesn't own the loot he's giving away. But if I were in his situation I'd do the same thing. He just a $25,000 - $30,000/year middle class guy working for a Walmart. Middle class people are often decent and generous. They work hard for what they get, but they don't mind sharing. And I doubt Walmart would force him to pay any penalty for it. But I also doubt any of the corporate big wigs make millions will have similar attacks of generosity. I'm sure they'll make a nice small donation for the sake of appearance. But nobody up top is going to lose any loot over it.

 

[wickwoman]

There are gunshots in Baghdad probably daily but somehow this government appears to accomplish its objectives there. Hasn't martial law already been declared in New Orleans and the military there on patrol?

That national guard has now been called in with orders to shoot looters shooting at police and other officials.

 

[wickwoman]

I think I heard about 40% to 60% of national guard troops are busy in Iraq. National Guard is for here, the "nation" is supposed to be "guarded" by them. They don't belong in Iraq.

 

[PureX]

Oh, Sam Walton might have. But Walmart is a public corporation now. And their bottom line is the issue. I think it would be great too. And wonderful publicity. Heck, I might even start back shopping there. I boycotted Walmart quite some time ago.

They aren't do anyone any favors, they'll just write it all off on insurance and taxes, anyway. So it's not like the money will be coming off their bottom line. Besides, the looters might take the stuff if they lock the stores up, so why not make themselves look good by "giving it away" before it's stolen?

 

[Gaviidae]

They had to shut down rescue operations because of "this looting".

No they didn't. The looting had nothing to do with the rescue operations.

Mayor C. Ray Nagin ordered the police to suspend search-and-rescue operations to concentrate on stopping widespread looting and violence

and

Meanwhile, despite the dire situation in New Orleans, the mayor, Ray Nagin has ordered almost every one of the city's 1,500 police officers to leave their search-and-rescue mission Wednesday night and return to the streets to stop people from taking goods from stores and businesses.

 

[wickwoman]

I was just thinking about this situation some more. There is a time to make excuses for people and to try to understand where they are coming from. I do that a lot. I try to understand why a certain mindset was formed and what were the contributing causes of bad behavior. But at some point, making excuses for people makes us enablers. Many who have been involved with alcoholics or other addicts know what an enabler is. And if we make excuses for behavior like shooting at rescue helicopters we become enablers.

Poor, black people start out in life with 2 strikes against them. And they often to fight that much harder than your average white person for every little thing they get. And I do identify with that, though I have no experience in that area. But neither my husband nor I have college degrees and we've both worked very hard for everything we have. And, we never expected anyone to give us anything. Now, granted, we didn't have to deal with racial prejudice. But my husband's family was very poor at times. And mine worked their way up to middle class. But my parents worked very hard and gave up a lot of luxuries to stay out of debt and feed and clothe me and my sister when we were little. And they didn't expect anything from anybody either.

I guess what I'm rambling about is that the expectation that you're owed something fosters a very bad attitude. And now, when tragedy strikes, a small minority (I hope) of these same people are just taking a very poor way of thinking about things one step further. They are taking by force, and they are doing it while stepping over the dead bodies of their own people. And, that's a shame. It's not a black thing. It's about being your own worst enemy. And many who live in poor neighbors will tell you the worst enemy of a poor person is the gang member living next door, not the mayor or the president or the white police man.

The majority of the police, heck, even the mayor in New Orleans is black. So it's not a black/white thing.

There are some contributing causes. And years of poverty and prejudice to contribute to such things. But I just can't put all the blame on discrimination, poor government and poverty. At some point I have to stop giving a pat on the back to people who have very destructive ways of thinking about things. Purex, you yourself, often criticize Christians for destructive beliefs. Christians inherit those bad beliefs you accuse them of from society and their parents the same way these black people inherit poverty and their idea that someone owes them something. This is the same situation now with these people. They are allowing a destructive way of thinking to be very harmful to others.

 

[HisLight]

I'm puzzled why you all care so much about this looting. I mean given the whole picture, the looting seems pretty trivial, really.

Looting is a sign of anarchy. Anarchy isn't trivial.

 

[HisLight]

Huh? So, what is this other agenda that the government has?

I thought this today as I watched the reports and thanked God that my family in that area survived and is safe.

It occured to me that the people that are stranded in New Orleans are predominantly poor. Who will speak out for them if aid doesn't arrive expeditiously? There are some here who would say these people are just a bunch of lazy slackers anyway. If they had been smart they would have listened and evacuated before the storm. Those too lazy to leave ought to get off their butts and work to get out.

I don't agree with any of that, but I am certain that there are some pragmatic bureaucrats who are thinking that. I am puzzled that so many can get in to do news coverage, but people are dying due to lack of water. I am puzzled that we are sending people to Texas only to find out once they are there that there is no room for them. I am puzzled that seeing the size and intensity of this storm that there were not resources heading in that direction even before the storm hit. I am truly puzzled that there is such a struggle over basic law and order.

I am truly shocked at the lack of prepardness and organization on the part of the local, state and federal governments. It has been 4 years since 911. It seems we have not done a lot to improve our ability to coordinate efforts or communicate after a disaster.