Is Russia Our Enemy?

ClimateSanity

ClimateSanity

New member
ok doser said:
on last night's Ideas with Paul Kennedy on the cbc:


http://www.cbc.ca/radio/popup/audio...he-return-of-the-cold-war&contentid=1.3834453

if that doesn't work, link from here: http://www.cbc.ca/radio/ideas/lecture-4-the-return-of-the-cold-war-1.3834453






The 2016 CBC Massey Lectures: The Return of Cold War 1:20
Listen to Full Episode 53:59

In his 1989 essay The End of History? American thinker Francis Fukuyama suggested that Western liberal democracy was the endpoint of our political evolution, the best and final system to emerge after thousands of years of trial and error. Fukuyama seems to have been wrong: our recent history -- filled with terrorism and war, rising inequity and the mass flight of populations -- suggests that we've failed to create any sort of global formula for lasting peace and social equity. In the 2016 CBC Massey Lectures, Jennifer Welsh explores how pronouncements about the "end of history" may have been premature. **This episode originally aired November 3, 2016.


"On the afternoon of February 22, 2014, in the Ukrainian capital of Kiev, you could smell the scent of revolution. Earlier that day, the country's parliament had voted to eject its reigning President, Viktor Yanukovych from power, following three months of protests and clashes ... Meanwhile, protesters rode atop trucks in the central avenues and squares of the city...celebrating what they believed would be the dawn of a new era in Ukraine's political future. Only a few hours later, however, in a city roughly 500 miles away, more fateful decisions were underway which would lead Ukraine down a more uncertain and violent path."


Fukuyama's essay was inspired by the apparent collapse of the Soviet Union in the late 1980's. But the Soviet Union -- or the idea of it, the muscle behind it -- is back. The Cold War, a kind of standoff between two superpowers, is not unique in human history, but today's version of the Cold War is triggering a domino effect -- instability in Ukraine and the Middle East, the return of a threat to liberal democracy.



Jennifer Welsh is Professor and Chair in International Relations at the European University Institute in Florence (Italy) and a Fellow of Somerville College, University of Oxford. From 2013 until 2016, she was the Special Adviser to the United Nations Secretary General on the Responsibility to Protect. She co-founded the Oxford Institute for Ethics, Law and Armed Conflict, and has taught international relations at the University of Toronto, McGill University, and the Central European University (Prague). Welsh is the author, co-author, and editor of several books and articles on international relations, the changing character of war, and Canadian foreign policy. She was born and raised in Regina, Saskatchewan, and is of Metis descent. She now lives in Italy, with her husband and two children.




go to 31:15 for a cogent analysis of current conflict
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You need iTunes to watch this. :sigh:

Sent from my XT1254 using TheologyOnline mobile app
 
R

rexlunae

New member
ok doser said:
bummer


she describes the left's meltdown in reaction to the realization that the democracy a-borning in Russia is not the liberal-progressive democracy they think it should be


rex is exhibit A
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If Putin is running a democracy, so was Hitler. So was Saddam Hussein. There is no such thing as a-liberal democracy. It is a self-rationalizing farce.
 
R

rexlunae

New member
ok doser said:
what were you trying to say here?
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That democracy is liberal by definition ( see classical liberalism). Putin's regime has sometimes been described as an a-liberal democracy, I.e. a democracy that isn't liberal. I reject that as farsically incoherent. Putin runs a traditional dictatorship that pretends not to be one.
 
ok doser

ok doser

lifeguard at the cement pond
rexlunae said:
That democracy is liberal by definition ( see classical liberalism). Putin's regime has sometimes been described as an a-liberal democracy, I.e. a democracy that isn't liberal. I reject that as farsically incoherent. Putin runs a traditional dictatorship that pretends not to be one.
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ah - i see

de·moc·ra·cy
dəˈmäkrəsē/
noun
noun: democracy

a system of government by the whole population or all the eligible members of a state, typically through elected representatives.
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elected representatives

that's russia :idunno:
 
kmoney

kmoney

New member
Hall of Fame
This talk of elections and democracy reminded me of a podcast I listened to a few weeks ago.
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-warcollege-15feb-idUSKBN15U1Y5


According to Presidents John Kennedy and Ronald Reagan, the United States is a shining “city upon a hill.” It’s a beacon of democracy in a dark world full of cruel dictators and vicious despots. But history shows the United States has also been willing to side with despots in the name of stability.

This week on War College, we talk to Brian Klaas, a Oxford University graduate and expert on political violence, about his new book – The Despot’s Accomplice: How the West is Aiding and Abetting the Decline of Democracy.

According to Klaas, powerful countries should stop forcing democracy down the throats of their less stable counterparts and avoid settling for despots to achieve stability. He makes the case for coopting the rank-and-file of old regimes into new ones to prevent state collapse, and for using tactical military force and foreign aid money to coax tyrants out of power. Plus, he explores “counterfeit democracies,” and a new city upon a hill in West Africa: The Gambia.



It's not long, about 30 minutes. I recommend listening if you have the technology and time. You can download from iTunes.

One of his points is that the West has lowered the bar on what qualifies as democracy. He recommends a grading system for elections instead of simply calling something "free and fair". He says that benefits can be tied to moving up the ladder as they improve each election.

War College also has another recent podcast on a similar topic. I have it downloaded but haven't listened yet.
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-warcollege-15mar-idUSKBN16M35A
 
ok doser

ok doser

lifeguard at the cement pond
kmoney said:
This talk of elections and democracy reminded me of a podcast I listened to a few weeks ago.
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-warcollege-15feb-idUSKBN15U1Y5


According to Presidents John Kennedy and Ronald Reagan, the United States is a shining “city upon a hill.” It’s a beacon of democracy in a dark world full of cruel dictators and vicious despots. But history shows the United States has also been willing to side with despots in the name of stability.

This week on War College, we talk to Brian Klaas, a Oxford University graduate and expert on political violence, about his new book – The Despot’s Accomplice: How the West is Aiding and Abetting the Decline of Democracy.

According to Klaas, powerful countries should stop forcing democracy down the throats of their less stable counterparts and avoid settling for despots to achieve stability. He makes the case for coopting the rank-and-file of old regimes into new ones to prevent state collapse, and for using tactical military force and foreign aid money to coax tyrants out of power. Plus, he explores “counterfeit democracies,” and a new city upon a hill in West Africa: The Gambia.



It's not long, about 30 minutes. I recommend listening if you have the technology and time. You can download from iTunes.

One of his points is that the West has lowered the bar on what qualifies as democracy. He recommends a grading system for elections instead of simply calling something "free and fair". He says that benefits can be tied to moving up the ladder as they improve each election.

War College also has another recent podcast on a similar topic. I have it downloaded but haven't listened yet.
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-warcollege-15mar-idUSKBN16M35A
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russia is the largest country on the planet, spanning eleven time zones with a myriad of indigenous cultures and traditions

why on earth would we expect "democracy" to be a good fit for government there?
 
R

rexlunae

New member
ok doser said:
russia is the largest country on the planet, spanning eleven time zones with a myriad of indigenous cultures and traditions

why on earth would we expect "democracy" to be a good fit for government there?
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Who said it was a good fit? I said it isn't a democracy. You're the one insisting that it is.
 
R

rexlunae

New member
kmoney said:
This talk of elections and democracy reminded me of a podcast I listened to a few weeks ago.
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-warcollege-15feb-idUSKBN15U1Y5


According to Presidents John Kennedy and Ronald Reagan, the United States is a shining “city upon a hill.” It’s a beacon of democracy in a dark world full of cruel dictators and vicious despots. But history shows the United States has also been willing to side with despots in the name of stability.

This week on War College, we talk to Brian Klaas, a Oxford University graduate and expert on political violence, about his new book – The Despot’s Accomplice: How the West is Aiding and Abetting the Decline of Democracy.

According to Klaas, powerful countries should stop forcing democracy down the throats of their less stable counterparts and avoid settling for despots to achieve stability. He makes the case for coopting the rank-and-file of old regimes into new ones to prevent state collapse, and for using tactical military force and foreign aid money to coax tyrants out of power. Plus, he explores “counterfeit democracies,” and a new city upon a hill in West Africa: The Gambia.



It's not long, about 30 minutes. I recommend listening if you have the technology and time. You can download from iTunes.

One of his points is that the West has lowered the bar on what qualifies as democracy. He recommends a grading system for elections instead of simply calling something "free and fair". He says that benefits can be tied to moving up the ladder as they improve each election.

War College also has another recent podcast on a similar topic. I have it downloaded but haven't listened yet.
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-warcollege-15mar-idUSKBN16M35A
Click to expand...

I think this was the fatal error of the theory of groups like the Project for a New American Century. They underestimated the conditions required for a democracy. The forms of democracy alone are insufficient. Real genuine democracy is a deep cultural commitment, and one of the things that has concerned me in the last decade or so about the US is how the norms of democracy have grown to be hollowed out and insincere, especially among conservatives.
 
ClimateSanity

ClimateSanity

New member
rexlunae said:
No. Democracy can't exist in such an environment.

Dictators tend to have high approval rates because people know what happens if they speak their minds. Saddam Hussein did. Hitler did. Putin's rivals tend to find themselves shot, poisoned, or tossed off buildings.
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I don't see anyone being sent to the gulags for speech. What you speak of occurred during the USSR.

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