ok doser
lifeguard at the cement pond
if it can proven that putin authorized wmd's, then i'd be happy to see him held responsible for it :idunno:
Is Russia Our Enemy?
- Thread starter ok doser
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if it can proven that putin authorized wmd's, then i'd be happy to see him held responsible for it :idunno:
We call them enemies because they attack us.
Well, congratulations on being more nationalist that Steve Bannon. That's 1.) absurd, and 2.) the most cynical thing I've heard about international relations in the recent past.
You and SOD are so cynical. Even Steve Bannon acknowledges that the US has friends in the world. You just think we have temporary allies and adversaries. That's...sad.
Then I'd say you're wrong in both your construction of the problem and also your evaluation of your own rule. If a country dropped a bomb on us, we'd be upset regardless of their motivation. Would we accept the excuse that they're just pursuing their own interests? Of course we wouldn't. And you wouldn't accept that kind of hazy rationalization from a President you didn't like. And apart from that, Russia's goal was to create chaos and doubt, therefore the harm is not incidental.
WizardofOz
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Speaking of Steve Bannon...
ok doser
lifeguard at the cement pond
ClimateSanity
New member
If a country dropped a bomb on us, there is no other motivation than to harm.
The purpose of chaos and doubt is to further their national interest. We did the same thing to them. We tried to instill a desire for freedom in their populace as it would make them less dangerous to us.
We are imposing harmful sanctions on them. They desire an administration that is willing to see their occupation of Crimea in a more sympathetic light.
What they have done, is not to create chaos and doubt. They wanted to expose Hillary and the prior administration for the criminals they are because they were extremely antagonistic towards Russia.
There was no intention whatsoever to harm us or our political system. Exposing criminality does not harm a political system. If our democracy cannot withstand free flow of information then it's already dead.
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dodge
New member
HELLO ! Susan Rice admitted on National TV that she electronically spied on President Trump and his team.She also UN-masked Americans caught up in the surveillance , which 3 weeks ago she said she knew NOTHING about any surveillance OF the Trump team.
How does it feel to be so wrong ?
Again, their motivation does not matter. Plain and simple. Those who attack us are enemies.
Russia and Putin have become the "Boogeyman" to the far left Liberals. They blame Russia for everything. We need to focus on our real enemies, the Muslim Terrorists and the North Koreans. It wouldn't hurt to keep an eye on China, as well.
Also to Syrians who like breathing.
Don't you pay attention to what kinds of "Chaos" the Liberals are causing in our Nation? Oh, that's right, you're one of them.
Focusing on the Russians while looking away from our other HUGE problems isn't really a good idea. Sooner or later we're gonna have to take out North Korea's Missile sites, etc. Sooner or later we're gonna see some destruction coming from the Terrorists we're allowing in, because of the Democrats hatred for Trump.
There is no more urgent issue in the world right now than Russia's efforts to undermine democracy around the world and the rising tide of nationalism and fascism. And it's fascinating how you always seem to show up to distract from that.
ClimateSanity
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Nothing wrong with nationalism. True fascism is not in the rise. Sensible immigration policy is not fascism.
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Yeah, I like to show up where logic isn't present. Where is the "Fascism" you speak of? It's certainly not on the Conservative side of the street.
Agree, yet we should work well to make the best with China. We need to keep trade open and an ally against north Korea.
I don't think there are enough concrete facts in that post to really dispute on that basis. In the 20th century, nationalism lead to many major wars. I don't trust it. Fascism is essentially authoritarian nationalism, and Trump's attempts to rule by fiat seem pretty authoritarian to me, while they're explicitly and deliberately and acknowledgedly nationalist. There are other examples around the world. And his immigration policy isn't sensible in any way that I can see, apart from satisfying the desire of the new KKK for vengeance against immigrants.
I think Trump's movement is fascist, but with the knowledge that the optics of embracing that label are bad.
Far left Liberal Democrats like to call Conservative Republicans, Fascists. If you want to know what real Fascists looked and acted like, look to the Nazis during WW2. The Brown Shirts (Nazis) started out destroying property, breaking windows, and creating violence and Chaos. What are the far left Liberals doing on our streets today? The answer is destroying property, breaking glass, and creating violence and chaos. Now, who looks like the REAL Fascists?
ClimateSanity
New member
Speculation. You would have to eliminate other possibilities and show step by step in an irrefutable manner how it was indispensable to the start of those wars.
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History, and the awareness thereof. Sure, maybe this time the fascists won't turn out to be murderous thugs, but I wouldn't like to find out.
Historical example isn't subject to that kind of proof. It just can't be. That doesn't mean history doesn't have any warnings for us to heed.