Is Jesus eternal?

Is Jesus eternal?


  • Total voters
    25

Apple7

New member
WHY do you completely ignore the Father? He is "the only true God," according to Jesus' own words. (John 17:3) Yet you post things that don't include Him at all. Tell me, why is that?

:rolleyes:


Jesus is the true God...


οιδαμεν δε οτι ο υιος του θεου ηκει και δεδωκεν ημιν διανοιαν ινα γινωσκομεν τον αληθινον και εσμεν εν τω αληθινω εν τω υιω αυτου ιησου χριστω ουτος εστιν ο αληθινος θεος και ζωη αιωνιος

oidamen de hoti ho huios tou theou hēkei kai dedōken hēmin dianoian hina ginōskōmen ton alēthinon kai esmen en tō huiō autou Iēsou Christō houtos estin ho alēthinos theos kai zōē aiōnios

And we know that the Son of God has come, and He has given to us an understanding that we may know the true One, and we are in the true One, in His Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God and the life eternal. (1 John 5.20)
 

KingdomRose

New member
Jesus Christ said:

John 10:27-30 KJV My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: 28. And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. 29. My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand. 30. I and my Father are one.

Just like Jesus' DISCIPLES are "one" with Christ and the Father!

Jesus prayed to the Father: "I do not ask on behalf of these alone, but for those also who believe in me through their word; that they may ALL be one; even as You, Father, are in me and I in You, that they also may be in us so that the world may believe that You sent me. The glory which You have given to me I have given to them, that they may be one, just as we are one." (John 17:20-22, NASB)

Are the disciples ALSO God??? "One" must mean, simply, "in agreement."



:idea:
 

KingdomRose

New member
Jesus is eternal! He is without beginning and without end! Hello!!!

You quoted I John 1:1,2 and asked what part of "eternal" didn't I understand. Verse 2 said, "and the life [of the Word] was manifested, and we have seen and testify and proclaim to you the eternal life, which was with the Father and was manifested to us." (I don't know what version you used, but that is from the NASB.)

I wanted to see how the Greek words for "eternal" and "everlasting" compared, so I looked up a couple of verses in my Interlinear Bible (Hendrickson). They are different, and your Bible and the NASB seem to have overlooked the difference.

The Interlinear Bible renders I John 1:2 as: "...we announce to you the everlasting Life which was with the Father, and was revealed to us." "Everlasting" is different from "eternal" in, for example, Romans 1:20 where it says: "both His eternal power and Godship, for them to be without excuse," referring to God, the Father, not Jesus.

"Everlasting" is the correct word for I John 1:2, and is comparable to John 17:3 where it uses the Greek word for "everlasting," and it is not the same as the Greek word for "eternal" at Romans 1:20. Look it up.

"Everlasting" applies to Christ, where "eternal" does not. "Eternal" is not the correct word to use at I John 1:2.


:poly:
 

Bright Raven

Well-known member
LIFETIME MEMBER
Hall of Fame
I became a Christian when I dedicated my life to Jehovah and His Son, Jesus Christ, in 1975.

I had been baptized in the Methodist and Baptist churches, but I wasn't a real Christian then.


:poly:

Being baptized does not make you a Christian. An unfortunately the JW's are a cult.
 

KingdomRose

New member
He is described in verse seven as Him whom they pierced. In verse 18 as He who lives , and was dead but is alive forevermore. Hello, Jesus and Jesus speaking.

This is like kindergarten. Dear God give me patience. Verse 7 applies to Jesus, yes. From verse 5 to verse 7 it is speaking of Jesus. Verse 8 is transferring the focus to THE FATHER, JEHOVAH. This was obvious before 3rd century scribes left out God's name from the N.T. Jehovah was the MAIN one that was honored and revered, but now, since Jehovah's name is left out, people think it's all about Jesus! No....verse 8 is a quote from Jehovah, the Father, even though verse 7 was about Jesus.

In verse 18 it refers to Jesus also, but the "First & the Last" is not the same as "Alpha & Omega," as you can see if you look at an Interlinear Bible. The Greek words are not the same. In verse 18, the Greek letters, Alpha and Omega are not used.

Yes, Jesus was referenced, but not in all verses that come after.



:wave2:
 

Apple7

New member
Clinic time...

Clinic time...

"Everlasting" applies to Christ, where "eternal" does not. "

It does here...

οιδαμεν δε οτι ο υιος του θεου ηκει και δεδωκεν ημιν διανοιαν ινα γινωσκομεν τον αληθινον και εσμεν εν τω αληθινω εν τω υιω αυτου ιησου χριστω ουτος εστιν ο αληθινος θεος και ζωη αιωνιος

oidamen de hoti ho huios tou theou hēkei kai dedōken hēmin dianoian hina ginōskōmen ton alēthinon kai esmen en tō huiō autou Iēsou Christō houtos estin ho alēthinos theos kai zōē aiōnios

And we know that the Son of God has come, and He has given to us an understanding that we may know the true One, and we are in the true One, in His Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God and the life eternal. (1 John 5.20)


:cigar:
 

Bright Raven

Well-known member
LIFETIME MEMBER
Hall of Fame
You quoted I John 1:1,2 and asked what part of "eternal" didn't I understand. Verse 2 said, "and the life [of the Word] was manifested, and we have seen and testify and proclaim to you the eternal life, which was with the Father and was manifested to us." (I don't know what version you used, but that is from the NASB.)

I wanted to see how the Greek words for "eternal" and "everlasting" compared, so I looked up a couple of verses in my Interlinear Bible (Hendrickson). They are different, and your Bible and the NASB seem to have overlooked the difference.

The Interlinear Bible renders I John 1:2 as: "...we announce to you the everlasting Life which was with the Father, and was revealed to us." "Everlasting" is different from "eternal" in, for example, Romans 1:20 where it says: "both His eternal power and Godship, for them to be without excuse," referring to God, the Father, not Jesus.

"Everlasting" is the correct word for I John 1:2, and is comparable to John 17:3 where it uses the Greek word for "everlasting," and it is not the same as the Greek word for "eternal" at Romans 1:20. Look it up.

"Everlasting" applies to Christ, where "eternal" does not. "Eternal" is not the correct word to use at I John 1:2.


:poly:

you need to look them up in Strong's concordance. It might help you out if you catch my drift. What does everlasting means. Bet you can guess
 

KingdomRose

New member
οιδαμεν δε οτι ο υιος του θεου ηκει και δεδωκεν ημιν διανοιαν ινα γινωσκομεν τον αληθινον και εσμεν εν τω αληθινω εν τω υιω αυτου ιησου χριστω ουτος εστιν ο αληθινος θεος και ζωη αιωνιος

oidamen de hoti ho huios tou theou hēkei kai dedōken hēmin dianoian hina ginōskōmen ton alēthinon kai esmen en tō huiō autou Iēsou Christō houtos estin ho alēthinos theos kai zōē aiōnios

And we know that the Son of God has come, and He has given to us an understanding that we may know the true One, and we are in the true One, in His Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God and the life eternal. (1 John 5.20)

:cigar:

Nope. This is referring to Jesus' Father, Jehovah. You can see that if you slow down and really read that entire scripture.


:chuckle:
 

Apple7

New member
Run from the doorstep, JW...

Run from the doorstep, JW...

Nope. This is referring to Jesus' Father, Jehovah. You can see that if you slow down and really read that entire scripture.

Wrong.

Of the seventy times in which the demonstrative pronoun ουτος has a personal referent in the Gospel of John and his Epistles, the Father is never the referent! This fact, along with proximity, significantly increases the likelihood that Jesus Christ is the antecedent in the case of 1 John 5.20.
 

KingdomRose

New member
Being baptized does not make you a Christian. An unfortunately the JW's are a cult.

So we're reduced to just mean-spirited innuendos and name-calling now? I guess it's because you have no answers to my posts that are pulling your arguments to pieces.


:rotfl:
 

KingdomRose

New member
you need to look them up in Strong's concordance. It might help you out if you catch my drift. What does everlasting means. Bet you can guess

As we discussed at the beginning of this thread: "everlasting" life is what is offered to mankind, if they all accept Jesus' redemption plan. Mankind is not "eternal," that is, humans have not always been in existence. So "everlasting life" is offered to humans, and that is what Jesus is said to have.

I don't even have a Strong's Concordance. I look up things for myself. Do you have an Interlinear Bible?


:think:
 

Bright Raven

Well-known member
LIFETIME MEMBER
Hall of Fame
So we're reduced to just mean-spirited innuendos and name-calling now? I guess it's because you have no answers to my posts that are pulling your arguments to pieces.


:rotfl:

I have called you no name. The Jehovah's Witness organization is a cult plain and simple. That is not name calling any more than calling me a pentecostal since I am a member of the Assemblies of God.
 

Bright Raven

Well-known member
LIFETIME MEMBER
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As we discussed at the beginning of this thread: "everlasting" life is what is offered to mankind, if they all accept Jesus' redemption plan. Mankind is not "eternal," that is, humans have not always been in existence. So "everlasting life" is offered to humans, and that is what Jesus is said to have.

I don't even have a Strong's Concordance. I look up things for myself. Do you have an Interlinear Bible?


:think:
You can look it up online. Just as I can with the interlinear.
 

KingdomRose

New member
Wrong.

Of the seventy times in which the demonstrative pronoun ουτος has a personal referent in the Gospel of John and his Epistles, the Father is never the referent! This fact, along with proximity, significantly increases the likelihood that Jesus Christ is the antecedent in the case of 1 John 5.20.

That Greek word for "god" does not have an article. If you look, the Greek word for "god" meaning God Almighty (which has the definite article), you will see that it is different than the "god" without the article in John 1:1. In the case of I John 5:20, it doesn't take a genius to figure out who is being talked about here. One doesn't even have to go to the Greek words.

"We know that the Son of God has come, and he has given us intellectual capacity that we may gain the knowledge of the true one [the Father, God]. And we are in union with the true one [the Father, God], by means of his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God [the "true one," and the one who has the Son] and life everlasting."

It's about Jesus' God and Father, Jehovah. (John 20:17; Revelation 3:12)
 

KingdomRose

New member
I have called you no name. The Jehovah's Witness organization is a cult plain and simple. That is not name calling any more than calling me a pentecostal since I am a member of the Assemblies of God.

Our organization is not a "cult," and it is very demeaning for you to label us as such. It's like me calling you a "den of demons," which I have thought since even before I was a JW. (I went to at least two meetings at the Assembles of God churches and I thought I had stumbled across a coven of witches in the forest.)
 

Bright Raven

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Our organization is not a "cult," and it is very demeaning for you to label us as such. It's like me calling you a "den of demons," which I have thought since even before I was a JW. (I went to at least two meetings at the Assembles of God churches and I thought I had stumbled across a coven of witches in the forest.)
Taken from the Christian Research and Apologetics Ministry website (CARM) Don't take offense. If it is wrong, prove it wrong.


Is the Jehovah's Witness religion Christian?
by Matt Slick

The answer to the question is, "No. It is not Christian." Like all non-Christian cults, the Jehovah's Witness' organization distorts the essential doctrines of Christianity. It denies the deity of Christ, His physical resurrection, and salvation by grace. These make it non-Christian. In addition, to support its erring doctrines, the Watchtower organization (which is the author and teacher of all official Jehovah's Witness' theology) has altered the Bible to make it agree with its changing and non-Christian teachings.

Typical with cults that use the Bible to support its position is a host of interpretive errors:

Taking verses out of their immediate context.
Refusing to read verses in the entire Biblical context.
Inserting their theological presuppositions into the text.
Altering the Biblical text to suit their needs.
Latching onto one verse to interpret a host of others.
Changing the meanings of words.
Proclaiming some passages to be figurative when they contradict their doctrines.
Adding to the Word of God.
Additionally, the Jehovah's Witness' organization requires of its members regular weekly attendance at their "Bible Study" meetings where they are repeatedly indoctrinated with anti-Christian teachings. This is done by reading the Watchtower magazine, following along with what it says, reading the questions it asks, and reciting the answers it gives. In other words, the Watchtower Organization carefully trains its members to let the Organization do their thinking for them. For confirmation of this, please read Does the Watchtower organization control the JW's thinking?

The Witnesses are told that they will be persecuted when they go door-to-door teaching their doctrines. They are further told that this is simply the enemy fighting against God's organization because they are in "the truth." So, when someone disagrees with them, they are conditioned to reflect on what the Watchtower has told them. They then feel confirmed in being in God's true organization on earth (like all cults claim). They are strongly encouraged to have friends and acquaintances that are only JW's, thereby keeping outside examination to a minimum. They are told to shun those who leave their group, for in this way there is no way to see why someone has left and no way to find out that they are in error from those who have found the truth in Christ. They are conditioned to shy away from any real Biblically knowledgeable person. An example of this is frequently found on the Internet. I was once banned from a Jehovah's Witness' chat room after I not only answered their objections to the Trinity and deity of Christ but also challenged them in return. Subsequently, my name was passed around to all other Jehovah's Witness' rooms where I was banned from them as well. This is a frequent occurrence on the Internet where the Jehovah's Witnesses are alive and well. It is obvious that critical examination of their doctrines is not encouraged by the Watchtower Organization.

The Jehovah's Witnesses consider themselves to be Christians because they believe they are serving the true and living God. Like many cults, they think they are the only true church on earth. Yet, they deny the Trinity, the deity of Christ, the personhood of the Holy Spirit, Jesus' physical resurrection, and salvation by grace through faith.

The Jehovah's Witnesses are discouraged from looking into Jehovah's Witness' history or old Watchtower literature which is replete with contradictions, altered doctrines, and false prophecies. Instead, they are indoctrinated repeatedly against basic Christian doctrines (Trinity, deity of Christ, etc.,) and into the notion that they alone are the true servants of God and that all others are either in "Christendom" or simply unbelievers.

Primarily, the Jehovah's Witness' organization is a mind-control organization that uses its people to pass out literature and send in "donations" to the headquarters in Brooklyn, New York.

"Thus the Bible is an organizational book and belongs to the Christian congregation as an organization and not to individuals, regardless of how sincerely they may believe that they can interpret the Bible."1

The Watchtower organization of the Jehovah's Witnesses is a non-Christian organization that uses its people to promulgate false doctrines, collects "contributions" for distribution of a multitudinous amount of literature, and expands its grip into the lives of its members and their families.

It is a non-Christian cult.
 

Caino

BANNED
Banned
Time is non-existent - period.

Ontologically speaking, that is. In other words, time is an idea, not a thing with its own ontological existence. Time is simply a concept, a convention of language by which information concerning duration and sequence is conveyed.

God has always existed, including God the Son (see passages cited in previous post).

Resting in Him,
Clete


Time is certainly real to the finite mind. We experience reality in sequence. The eternal God is everywhere and every-when.
 

Apple7

New member
That Greek word for "god" does not have an article.

It most assuredly does in 1 John 5.20.


If you look, the Greek word for "god" meaning God Almighty (which has the definite article), you will see that it is different than the "god" without the article in John 1:1.

Show us.



In the case of I John 5:20, it doesn't take a genius to figure out who is being talked about here. One doesn't even have to go to the Greek words.

When it comes to Greek ignorant cults, like JW, the Greek always refutes them...


"We know that the Son of God has come, and he has given us intellectual capacity that we may gain the knowledge of the true one [the Father, God]. And we are in union with the true one [the Father, God], by means of his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God [the "true one," and the one who has the Son] and life everlasting."

'The Truth' always has Jesus as the referent in the NT.



It's about Jesus' God and Father, Jehovah. (John 20:17; Revelation 3:12)

No.
 

Apple7

New member
Our organization is not a "cult," and it is very demeaning for you to label us as such. It's like me calling you a "den of demons," which I have thought since even before I was a JW. (I went to at least two meetings at the Assembles of God churches and I thought I had stumbled across a coven of witches in the forest.)

Yes, it is.
 
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