That's easy, it's because it's not his decision. The Son is subject to his Father's authority.
The date and time is classified and Jesus does not have a need to know.
Is Jesus eternal?
- Thread starter Bright Raven
- Start date
That's easy, it's because it's not his decision. The Son is subject to his Father's authority.
The date and time is classified and Jesus does not have a need to know.
keypurr
Well-known member
Jesus was born to Mary, he is a man. He was not at the creation. The Son at the creation is firstborn of all creatures. First to be made. He was given the power of his creator. He was sent by his God to dwell in a body provided for him, Jesus.
When are you going to open your eyes to the truth that your being told? The real Christ is a spirit that lowered himself to become man. Jesus is the promised Messiah, the anointed one of God. The truth goes deeper than what you learned sitting in the pew friend.
keypurr
Well-known member
journey
New member
I'm not even interested in listening to JWs. You're back on ignore.
keypurr
Well-known member
OCTOBER23
New member
KEYPURR said,
Jesus was born to Mary, he is a man. - yes
He was not at the creation. - no
The Son at the creation is firstborn of all creatures. - at the creation ?
First to be made. ??
He was given the power of his creator. no just the Universal Authority
He was sent by his God to dwell in a body provided for him, Jesus. - not correct
The real Christ is a spirit that lowered himself to become man. - debatable
Jesus is the promised Messiah, the anointed one of God. - yes
===============================================
MAJOR ERROR KEYPURR.
YOU FORGOT ABOUT MELKIZEDEK AND THE BOOK OF HEBREWS
What scriptures are you using for your conclusions ??
Jesus was born to Mary, he is a man. - yes
He was not at the creation. - no
The Son at the creation is firstborn of all creatures. - at the creation ?
First to be made. ??
He was given the power of his creator. no just the Universal Authority
He was sent by his God to dwell in a body provided for him, Jesus. - not correct
The real Christ is a spirit that lowered himself to become man. - debatable
Jesus is the promised Messiah, the anointed one of God. - yes
===============================================
MAJOR ERROR KEYPURR.
YOU FORGOT ABOUT MELKIZEDEK AND THE BOOK OF HEBREWS
What scriptures are you using for your conclusions ??
NWL
Active member
And this verse it meant to show what exactly? Jesus was from the beginning, this doesn't prove that he's eternal though. Nor does the statement "and the life was manifested, and we have seen and testify and proclaim to you the eternal life, which was with the Father and was manifested to us"
The eternal life which is mentioned in 1 John 1:1-2 isn't stating Jesus has always been eternal, its simply stating he is eternal. In scripture people can gain the gift of becoming eternal (see Romans 6:23), thus it's wrong to assume Jesus has always had this eternal nature simply from reading 1 John 1:1-2.
You completely ignored the scriptures I showed which have Jesus himself saying that he lives "because of the Father" and has "been granted life within himself". How can some who is eternal live because of someone else? Moreover how can Jesus acquire life within himself if he already has that eternal life within himself? Obviously the verse I listed show that Jesus hasn't always been eternal? These are question which need to be answered if you insist that Jesus always has been eternal.
If you do reply to this post please don't ignore them.
OCTOBER23
New member
Originally Posted by KingdomRose View Post
I have explained John 1:1 and you continue to throw it out there like it was written in gold that the Word was Almighty God (which John 1:1 does not say).
To answer your question, no, I did not believe that the Father and the Son were equal, and the Holy Spirit was never a person to me. In fact, the first reason I had to respect JWs was the fact that they recognized the Father.
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BiTE rAvINE said,
Then you have never been a Christian?
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THAT WAS VERY RUDE - Kingdom Rose is probably more of a Christian than you are.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
YOU DID NOT EVEN ASK FOR SCRIPTURAL PROOF :madmad:
:madmad:
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Don't you Remember that JESUS said that the Father is Greater than he.
Joh 14:28 Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you.
If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father:
for my Father is greater than I.
Joh 10:29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all;
and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father’s hand.
I have explained John 1:1 and you continue to throw it out there like it was written in gold that the Word was Almighty God (which John 1:1 does not say).
To answer your question, no, I did not believe that the Father and the Son were equal, and the Holy Spirit was never a person to me. In fact, the first reason I had to respect JWs was the fact that they recognized the Father.
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BiTE rAvINE said,
Then you have never been a Christian?
-----------------------
THAT WAS VERY RUDE - Kingdom Rose is probably more of a Christian than you are.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
YOU DID NOT EVEN ASK FOR SCRIPTURAL PROOF :madmad:
:madmad:---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Don't you Remember that JESUS said that the Father is Greater than he.
Joh 14:28 Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you.
If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father:
for my Father is greater than I.
Joh 10:29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all;
and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father’s hand.
I agree. Kingdom Rose is not and probably never has been a Christian.Originally Posted by KingdomRose View Post
I have explained John 1:1 and you continue to throw it out there like it was written in gold that the Word was Almighty God (which John 1:1 does not say).
To answer your question, no, I did not believe that the Father and the Son were equal, and the Holy Spirit was never a person to me. In fact, the first reason I had to respect JWs was the fact that they recognized the Father.
------------------------------------------------------
BiTE rAvINE said,
Then you have never been a Christian?
-----------------------
THAT WAS VERY RUDE - Kingdom Rose is probably more of a Christian than you are.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
YOU DID NOT EVEN ASK FOR SCRIPTURAL PROOF :madmad:
Don't you Remember that JESUS said that the Father is Greater than he.
The term "Christian" does have a meaning. It isn't just "I believe in Jesus." You have to believe in the right (i.e. the real) Jesus. You don't get to just cherry pick which doctrines you like and which you don't and still get to call yourself a Christian if the ones you reject are part and parcel of what it means to be a Christian. Jesus is God Himself. That's the whole point of Christianity! THE WHOLE POINT! Jehovah Witnesses and Mormons and Branch Davidians and a whole list of other cults can claim to be Christian all they want but they're lying, as much to themselves as to anyone else.
And, by the way, how hard is is to learn how to use the [ quote] [ /quote] tags in your posts to properly format your posts so that people can follow what you're saying vs. what you're responding to. Would you like for my neighbor's 3rd grade child to teach you how to do it?
keypurr
Well-known member
No, I think Kingdom Rose is a Christian.
A Christian is a person who believes in Christ and tries to live the his life as Christ did.
A Christian is more interested in pleasing God then pleasing a church.
Churches are man made social clubs who love tradition.
It's about Jesus. Read it again.
OCTOBER23
New member
The Father's spirit was UPON JESUS VIA the White Dove.
Mt 12:18 Behold my servant, whom I have chosen;
my beloved, in whom my soul is well pleased:
I will put my spirit UPON him, and he shall shew judgment to the Gentiles.
Isa 42:1 Behold my servant, whom I uphold; mine elect, in whom my soul delighteth;
I have put my spirit UPON Him: he shall bring forth judgment to the Gentiles.
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Joh 14:20 At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.
Joh 15:4 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself,
except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.
Mt 12:18 Behold my servant, whom I have chosen;
my beloved, in whom my soul is well pleased:
I will put my spirit UPON him, and he shall shew judgment to the Gentiles.
Isa 42:1 Behold my servant, whom I uphold; mine elect, in whom my soul delighteth;
I have put my spirit UPON Him: he shall bring forth judgment to the Gentiles.
-------------------------------------------------------------
Joh 14:20 At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.
Joh 15:4 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself,
except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.
keypurr
Well-known member
I have, many times, your wrong.
You fail to open your mind to things that conflict with what you have been taught. You will never learn that way friend.
My bedtime, got to get up early to drive the old folks again.
NWL
Active member
I'll answer your question with a question, because you obviously haven't been reading peoples reply to this thread.
If Eternal life is something which is from "everlasting to everlasting" then how is it people can gain the gift of becoming eternal?
(Romans 6:23) "...For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord..."
By answering the question you will have answered your own question.
Once again you've ignored the scriptures I showed which have Jesus himself saying that he lives "because of the Father" and has "been granted life within himself", how can someone who has always been eternal say these things, it doesn't add up. If you explain contradictions in you reasoning why do you even believe it in the first place?
(John 6:57) "...Just as the living Father sent me and I live because of the Father..."
(John 5:26) "...For just as the Father has life in himself, so he [the Father] has granted also to the Son to have life in himself..."
NWL
Active member
Notice the above "You can be given the gift of eternal life by the one who is eternal". You are 100% correct, I couldn't put it better myself. Now where did Jesus get his eternal life from? The scripture which I've listed a few times now states where "For just as the Father has life in himself, so he [the Father] has granted also to the Son to have life in himself" (John 5:26)
God the Father who is eternal -no argument about that- gave the gift of "life within himself" to Jesus, thus Jesus became eternal, then in turn Jesus passes the gift of becoming eternal to his followers as Romans 6:23 shows.
John 1:1-2 does state Jesus is the eternal life, this still doesn't show that Jesus always has been eternal, as in having no beginning nor end. For starters Jesus was dead for three days, something which someone who is eternal cannot do. I believe the verse to be speaking of "eternal life" in the same manner as Romans 6:23 which talks about "eternal life in Christ Jesus", I don't believe 1 John 1:1-2 is literally saying Jesus has been eternal throughout the ages, but rather, Jesus is the person who has eternal life, or as 1 John 1:1 puts it, the "word of life" .
And yet again you've ignored the points I've raised in my previous post, I won't bother to ask them again as it's clear you're incapable of answering them.