Cyrus – Right, I have not read other posts and threads despite your general and somewhat unrealistic expectation and request that I should. I prefer getting a solid understanding from God prior to making my views known. The most important issue is to find out the truth from God’s word on the matter and submit to it.
As to me getting Clete’s posts wrong, I don’t think so. You said
Oneway,
seems that besides of utter lack of seeing my other posts about homosexuality, you havent read Clete's posts either. He supports the idea that homos should not let into the church, but they need to be put into death instead.
Supposed homosexuals should be confirmed that they are sexually immoral, and then excommunicated because of it (given no laws against homosexuality like in the USA). The bible does not lend an exception to prompt excommunication for the case of homosexuality.
So I agree with the shorthand version of Clete’s view, but not at the expense of the redemptive message imparted by saying why they are being excommunicated.
And I don’t believe Clete is suggesting such a thing. Before or at the same time as excommunication the reason is given for it and most likely the purpose as well, to buffet the sinner unto repentance for future acceptance back into the church. The way you are reacting to Clete’s views, I think you have it wrong, also, and ask Clete if he agrees or not, I bet he does. During the course of implementing new laws, you do not create a new law secretly and then the first person caught doing it gets put to death, you inform the people of the land of the new law(s) so that the nation legal notice of what is no longer legal. But after fair notice is given, offenders should be promptly executed.
The desire is not to catch and kill the first ignorant homo, it is to dissuade all such capitol offenses in a godly and redemptive way. Just as the death penalty is at the heart of the gospel, so to is the death penalty at the heart of a godly justice system. As speedy execution of criminal punishment is the best deterrence of criminal activity and protects people from lawlessness and promotes righteousness and morality instead.
The NT says that as the governing authorities are God’s ministers of wrath, executing vengeance against the evil doer, not holding the sword in vein. Jesus affirms putting the son or daughter to death upon parental assault (Matt 15), and Paul affirms it (Acts 25:11), the pro-Jesus thief on the cross who rightly said they (the two thieves/murderers) deserved to be put to death while Jesus did not, Jesus did not correct this assumed righteous statement, and instead said he was saved. The adulterous woman who Jesus let go without stoning was a demonstration of repealing the death penalty as shown by the examples that He still supports it, God alone can forgive on an individual basis (David for example) and Israel had no authority to execute based upon their own laws, they might be committing murder in the eyes of Rome, so that case is no support against the death penalty. The point is that the NT teaches the death penalty, it does not do otherwise.
The death penalty execution is to be carried out by the authority of the government, not the church or family or individual. This is life giving and redemptive both for the one deserving to die because there will never be a better time for him or her to repent and get right with God. As they say, there are no atheists in foxholes, many men find God is their deepest darkest hour. And for those who might otherwise think they should try it out, the righteous execution would send a clear message that homosexuality is an abomination to God and should never be practiced.
God says that a swift execution of punishment against criminals including a swift death penalty is a deterrent.
- Ec 8:11 Because the sentence against an evil work is not executed speedily, therefore the heart of the sons of men is fully set in them to do evil.
As to your response to smackdab about the supposed shift between the OT and NT, I see no such shift at all. As for arguing from the negative, you are being ridiculous. What then? Since God has not restated the love teachings in the last 2000 years, they are supposedly nullified because the times are more evil now? You need to give a clear indication that the law did change, and I submit that you will not find it because it did not change, even despite your socio-cultural expectations that it somehow must have.
