How do you view God?

[Clete]

Originally posted by prufrock

Well, I actually like reading some C.S. Lewis. His thoughts on pride seem to have more sense to them than much of the bible, which goes in one direction for a book and then changes it's mind in the next. However, his Lord, Liar, Lunatic trilemma is not complete. For instance, what about misrepresentation? could he not have been a great teacher whose teachings were manipulated and deified by some dissatisfied Jews? It is possible.

Such a belief would require the assumption that hundred of people went to their deaths for what they knew to be a lie. One or two lunatics may be able to persuade themselves that some individual is god and thereby be willing to die but hundreds or thousands or perhaps even tens of thousands! I think that such a position would require more faith than would simply believing that Jesus was who He claimed to be.
Besides that, if this idea of misrepresentation is true then all you've done is basically restate the first of the three options that Lewis’ trilemma. If the Bible is a misrepresentation then it is a lie and must be discarded and you are still left with no middle ground upon which to stand.
What are you afraid of any way? Pick a side and get on it for crying out loud! This wishy-washy crap makes me sick. If you are going to reject the Bible then reject it and get on with your life, these little games you play with yourself will only make things worse for you on judgment day. And if you don't believe that there will be a judgment day then why do you give rip about what the Bible says anyway?

Oh and thanks for the veiled threat wishing to do away with me forever in hell. I'm glad you are not God. Of course I don't believe it as you do, what with the torture pits and fire. If there are souls, they will have to go somewhere, but it's purely conjecture as far as I'm concerned to describe such a place.

It wasn't veiled you silly foolish boy! And it's not veiled in the Bible either. You will submit yourself to the Lord Jesus Christ and acknowledge Him as God, or you will go to Hell. This is the Bible is as small a nutshell as I can put it in. Take it or leave it.

Resting in Him,
Clete

 

[1Way]

The following issues presented seem well founded despite the various contentions against them.

1. Those who affirm the acceptance or practice of homosexuality should be put to death.
   (Capitol punishment as described by God’s word, not otherwise.)
   
2. Grossly immoral people who affirm God's word as righteous (believer in the righteousness of God) yet affirms gross immorality as acceptable, should be personally rejected.

Those who affirm/support homosexuality (a capitol offense) who also reject God and His ways, should be condemned as evil and wicked, a promoter of a capitol offense.

Conclusion:
Clete is right to include “all” pro homo’s for personal rejection and contempt and for giving the reasoning for doing so to reasonable requests even though some are pro-homo. Is the Christian supposed to be personally accepting of a kidnaper, rapist, pedophile, murderer? Of course not, same with pro-homos because we Christians should know right from wrong and live what we preach.

 

[Clete]

1Way,

Brilliant post!

I particularly loved this line...

All capitol offenders are to be rejected and excommunicated, they are worse than just being sexually immoral, in fact, they are supposed to be excommunicated from life for good.

Brilliant! :thumb:
I may have to use that one.

Resting in Him,
Clete

 

[Clete]

Originally posted by 1Way

The following issues presented seem well founded despite the various contentions against them.

1. Those who affirm the acceptance or practice of homosexuality should be put to death.
   (Capitol punishment as described by God’s word, not otherwise.)
   
2. Grossly immoral people who affirm God's word as righteous (believer in the righteousness of God) yet affirms gross immorality as acceptable, should be personally rejected.

Those who affirm/support homosexuality (a capitol offense) who also reject God and His ways, should be condemned as evil and wicked, a promoter of a capitol offense.

Conclusion:
Clete is right to include “all” pro homo’s for personal rejection and contempt and for giving the reasoning for doing so to reasonable requests even though some are pro-homo. Is the Christian supposed to be personally accepting of a kidnaper, rapist, pedophile, murderer? Of course not, same with pro-homos because we Christians should know right from wrong and live what we preach.

1Way,

This might make your head go POP but I believe that those who promote or advocate a capital offense are themselves guilty of a capital offense and should be subject to the same punishment.

Resting in Him,
Clete

 

[smaller]

I know of a little forrest in Arkansas where there are other people like you and Clete. Perhaps a visit is in order?

Perhaps a permanent residence there as well?

A perfect place for you SINLESS GOD ACTIVATORS. Perhaps Ninevah and Poly can accompany you as well.

There you would be FREE from those who SIN, damn them anyway.

 

[Clete]

Originally posted by smaller

I know of a little forrest in Arkansas where there are other people like you and Clete. Perhaps a visit is in order?

Perhaps a permanent residence there as well?

A perfect place for you SINLESS GOD ACTIVATORS. Perhaps Ninevah and Poly can accompany you as well.

There you would be FREE from those who SIN, damn them anyway.

You won't damn murderers and childmolesters but will me. :think:

 

[smaller]

The FALSE damnation in you has been set for execution already. It is only a shame that you serve what has been slated for death.

You want to judge child molesters and murderers and homosexuals under the law, yet you MURDER people in your heart DAILY.

Oh, and don't forget to tell me that you have never committed ADULTERY in your MIND either.

Sinless God Activators?

go figure...

 

[cur_deus_homo]

Responding to what started this thread:

Mat 9:12 On hearing this, Jesus said, "It is not the healthy who need a doctor, but the sick.
Mat 9:13 But go and learn what this means: 'I desire mercy, not sacrifice.' For I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners."

Look up the context. Jesus wasn't "shunning" sinners, he was eating with them, the most important act of community and hospitality of the day.

 

[Cyrus of Persia]

Originally posted by lighthouse

Cyrus-
Homosexuality is a sin. And sin is sin. It doesn't matter what time period, or what the birth rate is. It is a sick, disgusting, vile, putrid, perverted [I could go on for a long time] act. And God has called it exactly what it is, an abomination! That's the bottom line. And I agree that those who commit abominations deserve to die for such acts, but I also know that repentance can save them. All they have to do is accept the grace God has given. If they do not, it is their funeral.

Lighthouse i got a scripture for you...

Romans 1...
"26 For this reason God gave them up to dishonorable passions. Their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural, 27 and the men likewise gave up natural relations with women and were consumed with passion for one another, men committing shameless acts with men and receiving in their own persons the due penalty for their error. 28 And since they did not see fit to acknowledge God, God gave them up to a base mind and to improper conduct. 29 They were filled with all manner of wickedness, evil, covetousness, malice. Full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, malignity, they are gossips, 30 slanderers, haters of God, insolent, haughty, boastful, inventors of evil, disobedient to parents, 31 foolish, faithless, heartless, ruthless. 32 Though they know God's decree that those who do such things deserve to die, they not only do them but approve those who practice them."

Lighthouse, aren't you worthy of death by this list also? So why pick on homos only and think that you can save your butt from death, while your own sins are as much worthy of death as homosexualism is according to the Bible.

Go figure.

 

[Clete]

Originally posted by Cyrus of Persia

Lighthouse i got a scripture for you...

Romans 1...
"26 For this reason God gave them up to dishonorable passions. Their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural, 27 and the men likewise gave up natural relations with women and were consumed with passion for one another, men committing shameless acts with men and receiving in their own persons the due penalty for their error. 28 And since they did not see fit to acknowledge God, God gave them up to a base mind and to improper conduct. 29 They were filled with all manner of wickedness, evil, covetousness, malice. Full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, malignity, they are gossips, 30 slanderers, haters of God, insolent, haughty, boastful, inventors of evil, disobedient to parents, 31 foolish, faithless, heartless, ruthless. 32 Though they know God's decree that those who do such things deserve to die, they not only do them but approve those who practice them."

Lighthouse, aren't you worthy of death by this list also? So why pick on homos only and think that you can save your butt from death, while your own sins are as much worthy of death as homosexualism is according to the Bible.

Go figure.

Are you suggesting that this passage teaches that boastful people (for example) are guilty of a capital crime? Is that really what you are saying?

Why do you even consider yourself a Christian then? If God is so unjust as to command the death penalty for slander then why follow Him at all?

You need to at least attempt to stay on the same page as the author when read a book Cyrus! It's no wonder you're so upside down on this. Your line of thinking on this would logically conclude that there should be no death penalty for anything. Do you advocate the death penalty for murderers? If so, then why pick on murderers only and think that can save your butt from death, while your own sins are as much worthy of death as murderism is according to the Bible?

See my point?

This passage is saying the homos are worthy of death because "Though they know God's decree that those who do such things deserve to die, they not only do them but approve those who practice them."

Resting in Him,
Clete

 

[smaller]

Yes Cyrus, what's wrong with YOU???

Clete and 1Way desire to CONDEMN NEARLY everyone else under "the law" while they themselves under same law are clearly revealed as both LAWBREAKERs and SINNERs.

They propose however that they be judged as only under GRACE.

God hates a DOUBLE STANDARD bearers.

They want the STANDARD over their heads to be LOVE, but do not want to measure this standard to others...go figure

Acts 23:3
Then said Paul unto him, God shall smite thee, thou whited wall: for sittest thou to judge me after the law, and commandest me to be smitten contrary to the law?

James 4
12 There is one lawgiver, who is able to save and to destroy: who art thou that judgest another?

 

[Duder]

Clete, 1Way, et al -

Those who affirm the acceptance or practice of homosexuality should be put to death.
(Capitol punishment as described by God’s word, not otherwise.)

Wow. I see now that the new, glorious society of you guys want is going to have mind-police to remove those who affirm the "wrong" ideas. You are going to have a world where there is no more innovation, no more science, no more art - a society where people are constantly on guard against saying the wrong thing lest there be a mind-police informant within earshot.

Freedom of thought and freedom of expression are absolutely essential for humans to thrive as humans. It is our gifts of reason and communication that distinguish us from other species - and what you want to do is quite simply a crime against humanity.

No offence and nothing personal, but you know you're going to have to incite a violent revolution to bring about the society you want, and if that happens I will take up arms against you.

 

[Cyrus of Persia]

Originally posted by Clete Pfeiffer

Are you suggesting that this passage teaches that boastful people (for example) are guilty of a capital crime? Is that really what you are saying?

Paul is saying that, not me.

And it's deeply your own misinterpretation of the passage sticked together with your homo-hatred attitute what makes you think that Paul is saying that only homos are worthy of death in this passage. He does not start with homos, but with those who worship nature instead of God, then he picks up homos, and adds many more sins what people do concluding that ALL those things are worty of death.

Few chapters after that he says that the wage of sin is death. Sin is sin and we all (as sinners) are worthy of death, but thanks to God Jesus died for us, so none of us (even homos who turn to Him) need not to die, but have eternal life by His grace.

 

[Duder]

Clete -

Are you suggesting that this passage teaches that boastful people (for example) are guilty of a capital crime? Is that really what you are saying?

Why do you even consider yourself a Christian then? If God is so unjust as to command the death penalty for slander then why follow Him at all?

Cyrus' passage implies just that. And you ask a just question - why would one be inclined to follow such a god? Paul gives a whole list of errors that cause a person to be worthy of death. A person of integrity cannot point to the queers in that list, ignore the rest, and demand that the passage be enforced. That is intellectualy dishonest.

But as you so aptly point out, a god who says in all seriousness the things Paul is saying in this letter is not worthy of followers. So we are left with the decision of whether 1) God is a crude brute, or 2) Paul exaggerated or simply got it wrong.

I vote for the latter.

 

[Clete]

Originally posted by Duder

Clete, 1Way, et al -

Wow. I see now that the new, glorious society of you guys want is going to have mind-police to remove those who affirm the "wrong" ideas. You are going to have a world where there is no more innovation, no more science, no more art - a society where people are constantly on guard against saying the wrong thing lest there be a mind-police informant within earshot.

Freedom of thought and freedom of expression are absolutely essential for humans to thrive as humans. It is our gifts of reason and communication that distinguish us from other species - and what you want to do is quite simply a crime against humanity.

No offence and nothing personal, but you know you're going to have to incite a violent revolution to bring about the society you want, and if that happens I will take up arms against you.

We are advocating the exact legal system God put forward in the Bible. Do you think that God advocates mind-police? This is stupidity beyond all comprehension. And frankly I do not believe that you actually think that this is what we are advocating. You say this simply in an attempt to discredit our position by putting words in our mouths.

There have been similar laws on the books for thousands of years. Every heard of conspiracy? Conspiracy to commit murder should be punishable by death, as should attempted murder. If you educate people on how to commit murder you are guilty of conspiracy to commit murder and should be executed. The same should be true if you publish a book that explains how to get away with molesting a child or raping women or any other capital crime.

But nobody is going to be bugging peoples houses or cars or anything else like that. Those things themselves would be criminal acts if done without cause. But if you are publicly advocating a capital crime then you should be prosecuted as though you yourself had committed the crime.

Resting in Him,
Clete

 

[Clete]

Duder and Cyrus,

Paul could not have been saying that slanderers should be put to death along with homos and murderers.

notice what he says...

"Though they know God's decree that those who do such things deserve to die, they not only do them but approve those who practice them."

Where is the decree that slanderers should be executed? What passage would Paul have been referring to? What statute would these people have been aware of?

There isn't any. God never decreed that slanderers be put to death. Paul is simply observing that these homos where full of all sort of evil, including slander, and malice, both of which sins you two are guilty of committing even now as we speak.

Resting in Him,
Clete

 

[adajos]

I voted "disagree" for several reasons.

One of them was the description of God as an "ultra right-wing extremist". I agree with BChristianK that God transcends human political classifications. If an infinitely wise God can be categorized neatly with our finite man-made labels than either He isn't much of a God, or we have remade Him in our image.

Lest I be accused of political bias, I have always been politically conservative.

 

[Clete]

Originally posted by adajos

I voted "disagree" for several reasons.

One of them was the description of God as an "ultra right-wing extremist". I agree with BChristianK that God transcends human political classifications. If an infinitely wise God can be categorized neatly with our finite man-made labels than either He isn't much of a God, or we have remade Him in our image.

Lest I be accused of political bias, I have always been politically conservative.

God is the very definition of what it means to be conservative or right-wing! You cannot get any more covservative or right-wing than God is. He is therefore the ultimate right-wing conservative extremist by definition.

In case you've never thought it through before, politics and religion are in essence the same subject. Think about it.

Resting in Him,
Clete

 

[smaller]

These things ARE worthy of death and they WILL DIE.

God's Children are ALL BOUND to disobedience SO THAT God may have MERCY upon ALL. (synop. Romans 11:32)

To say THIS MERCY is only UNTO THOSE who "accept it" is to ROB God of His Eternal Dispensation.

These "eternal things" are not left in the HANDS of CHILDREN my friends.

 

[adajos]

Clete,

God is the very definition of what it means to be conservative or right-wing! You cannot get any more covservative or right-wing than God is. He is therefore the ultimate right-wing conservative extremist by definition.

In case you've never thought it through before, politics and religion are in essence the same subject. Think about it.

Are you saying "godly" and "right-wing" are equivalent?

You claim this is true by definition. Well, it certainly ain't spelled out that way in the dictionary. Are you finding that definition in the Bible somewhere?