heir
TOL Subscriber
Absolutely!
ECT Conditional salvationists deny the Cross and the Bible
- Thread starter musterion
- Start date
The believer is fully safe only when Christ returns for them.
Until then they must be faithful and not go back, as many so did after leaving Egypt, and concerning which 2 Peter ch 2 is written--
2Pe 2:18 For when they speak great swelling words of vanity, they allure through the lusts of the flesh, through much wantonness, those that were clean escaped from them who live in error.
2Pe 2:19 While they promise them liberty, they themselves are the servants of corruption: for of whom a man is overcome, of the same is he brought in bondage.
2Pe 2:20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.
2Pe 2:21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.
2Pe 2:22 But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.
LA
heir
TOL Subscriber
Wrong!
Ephesians 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
Ephesians 1:14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.
And yet, consider that that is exactly what you did.
Philippians 3:9 KJV
9. And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:
What is this "through the faith of Christ" that imputes "the righteousness which is of God by faith" - by believing on Him?
And by Believing on Him as to what?
Galatians 2:
16. Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
Again, what is this faith of Christ?
20. I am crucified with Christ: neverthless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.
21. I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.
Hebrews 10:
7. Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God.
8. Above when he said, Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein; which are offered by the law;
9. Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.
10. By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
That is "the faith of Christ."
What is this "faith of Christ" you are denying in your pride?
Mark 14:
32. And they came to a place which was named Gethsemane: and he saith to his disciples, Sit ye here, while I shall pray.
33. And he taketh with him Peter and James and John, and began to be sore amazed, and to be very heavy;
34. And saith unto them, My soul is exceeding sorrowful unto death: tarry ye here, and watch.
35. And he went forward a little, and fell on the ground, and prayed that, if it were possible, the hour might pass from him.
36. And he said, Abba, Father, all things are possible unto thee; take away this cup from me: nevertheless not what I will, but what thou wilt.
Romans 5:
7. For scarcely for a righteous man will one die: yet peradventure for a good man some would even dare to die.
8. But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
9. Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.
10. For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.
Philippians 3:
8. Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ,
What is this "knowledge of Christ"? It is knowledge of Christ - knowledge about Him.
2 Corinthians 4:
3. But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:
4. In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.
Romans 5:
5. And hope maketh not ashamed; because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us.
6. For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly.
Galatians 3:
1. O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you?
glorydaz
Well-known member
LA doesn't trust God's SEAL. :nono:
glorydaz
Well-known member
Amen. Without faith it is impossible to please God. "This is my beloved Son in whom I am well pleased." Matt. 3:17
And what obedience of faith...but unto death?
Philippians 2:8
And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.
And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.
You have no idea of who I trust.
You presume that by your receiving the Holy Spirit that it means you are also sealed by it.
The believers obeyed acts 2:38 to become members of the church, but you reject the doctrine given at the first for all--
Jud 1:3 Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints.
Act 2:36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.
Act 2:37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?
Act 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Act 2:39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call. Act 2:40 And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.
Act 2:41 Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.
Act 2:42 And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers.
Act 2:43 And fear came upon every soul: and many wonders and signs were done by the apostles.
Act 2:44 And all that believed were together, and had all things common;
Act 2:45 And sold their possessions and goods, and parted them to all men, as every man had need.
Act 2:46 And they, continuing daily with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, did eat their meat with gladness and singleness of heart,
Act 2:47 Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved.
LA
You cherry pick the verses to suit yourself.
Paul was speaking to the mature of the Ephesian church, and then proceeded to include the immature among them.
I suggest you read the instructions of Paul to them, which are more applicable to you.
but then you say you are not a member of the Bride and it is they to whom Paul speaks.
nothing to do with you whatever, by your own reckoning.
Eph 5:23 For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body.
Eph 5:24 Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in every thing.
Eph 5:25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;
Eph 5:26 That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,
Eph 5:27 That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish.
Eph 5:28 So ought men to love their wives as their own bodies. He that loveth his wife loveth himself.
Eph 5:29 For no man ever yet hated his own flesh; but nourisheth and cherisheth it, even as the Lord the church:
Eph 5:30 For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones.
Eph 5:31 For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh.
Eph 5:32 This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church.
Eph 5:33 Nevertheless let every one of you in particular so love his wife even as himself; and the wife see that she reverence her husband.
LA
musterion
Well-known member
Wrong. Most of the Corinthians were as worldly, carnal and immature as can be yet Paul called them saints and no longer what they had been.
Keep heaping up condemnation for yourself, devil.
andyc
New member
andyc
New member
andyc
New member
I don't know who you are, but the "faith of Christ" / "Faith in Christ" scenario comes up for debate regularly here. No need to check other translations, just quote them.
None of what you've said and quoted supports what STP has been saying.
andyc
New member
Nothing here about Christ's faith being imputed to us.
SaulToPaul 2
Well-known member
heir
TOL Subscriber
That's a false premise!
Ephesians 1:1 Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, to the saints which are at Ephesus, and to the faithful in Christ Jesus:
Ephesians 1:2 Grace be to you, and peace, from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ.
Ephesians 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:
Ephesians 1:4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: ( see Rom 8:28-30 )
Ephesians 1:5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,
Ephesians 1:6 To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.
Ephesians 1:7 In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;
Ephesians 1:8 Wherein he hath abounded toward us in all wisdom and prudence;
Ephesians 1:9 Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself:
Ephesians 1:10 That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him:
Ephesians 1:11 In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:
Ephesians 1:12 That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ.
Ephesians 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
Ephesians 1:14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.
Ephesians 1:15 Wherefore I also, after I heard of your faith in the Lord Jesus, and love unto all the saints,
Ephesians 1:16 Cease not to give thanks for you, making mention of you in my prayers;
Ephesians 1:17 That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him:
Ephesians 1:18 The eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that ye may know what is the hope of his calling, and what the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints,
Ephesians 1:19 And what is the exceeding greatness of his power to us-ward who believe, according to the working of his mighty power,
Ephesians 1:20 Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places,
Ephesians 1:21 Far above all principality, and power, and might, and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this world, but also in that which is to come:
Ephesians 1:22 And hath put all things under his feet, and gave him to be the head over all things to the church,
Ephesians 1:23 Which is his body, the fulness of him that filleth all in all.
That covers all of us today who are members of the Body of Christ! Are you a member?
andyc
New member
I know what you mean, but you don't understand the implications your view. What you understand is that it was Christ's own personal work of faith in what he did, that God honors on your behalf.
Therefore it isn't really the faith of Christ that you think saves you and keeps you, but rather the faithfulness of Christ. And obviously you assume this is the same thing. However, if God sees the faithfulness of Christ when he looks at you, and the spin you put on it, then the faith of Christ would also be imputed to you in the same way righteousness is, because you have the work of Christ and the person screwed up by your weird interpretation.
The objective in your view is to make Christ responsible for every failure you see in yourself. Including doubt, unbelief, unfaithfulness, sin, etc This leaves you to walk in a false assurance that you have zero responsibility and accountability as a christian.
Right Divider
Body part
"IF" is NOT always used as a CONDITIONAL. It can simply be used as a COMPARISON as well.
You only think that it's used that way because it suits your preconceived notion.
glorydaz
Well-known member
No one said His faith is imputed to us, but the results of His faith is. His righteousness is imputed to us when we believe. His obedience unto death (shed blood) = faith of Jesus Christ.
At the Passover, the people took the shed blood and spread it over the door post = faith in the shed blood. God sees our belief and the power of the blood is bestowed upon us.
We are justified by the faith of Jesus Christ (His obedience unto death), and when we believe, (our obedience of faith), the blood is applied. We don't live because we apply the blood....we live because life is in the blood and we gain access to it when we believe. We live by HIS faith (His life of faith and His work of faith) performed on our behalf.
Romans 5:1-2 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ: By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.
glorydaz
Well-known member
On the contrary. It means the LORD gets all the glory. Man cannot claim one thing to his own glory....salvation is not to the credit of man. You can boast of what you have done, and it's too darn feeble to keep you much less save you. I don't care how righteous you THINK you are. Boasting is EXCLUDED by the law of faith, because in the ages to come....
Eph. 2:7-9
That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus. For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.
That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus. For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.