glorydaz
Well-known member
Your head knowledge didn't save you and you fail to trust Him. You don't even give Him the credit for transforming us into the image of the Son.
ECT Conditional salvationists deny the Cross and the Bible
- Thread starter musterion
- Start date
Your head knowledge didn't save you and you fail to trust Him. You don't even give Him the credit for transforming us into the image of the Son.
Jamie Gigliotti
New member
He gets all the credit and credit for not making us robots and forcing us!
The power of His love and Spirit save us. Just because we must choose to sow to Him does not mean we desrve the Spirit. It is by the blood of Jesus!
Jamie Gigliotti
New member
People we have a choice, surrender to the love and Spirit of God, or to Satan.
Joh 15:2 Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit.
Joh 15:3 Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you.
Joh 15:4 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.
Joh 15:5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.
Joh 15:6 If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.
Joh 15:7 If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you.
Joh 15:8 Herein is my Father glorified, that ye bear much fruit; so shall ye be my disciples.
Joh 15:9 As the Father hath loved me, so have I loved you: continue ye in my love.
I find it harder and harder to reason with many here.
glorydaz
Well-known member
Robots? I don't know why you continue to insist on using that term when it has nothing to do with what God accomplishes in us as we're being conformed into the image of the Son. So, does He get all the credit or not? Yes or no without qualification. If He gets all the credit then it means He is doing the work in us. You keep ignoring this verse. What does this verse say to you?
Philippians 2:13
For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.
For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.
So then, your claim that He deserves all the credit requires we MUST choose to "sow to Him"? The love of God has been shed abroad on our hearts by the Holy Spirit. Please tell me how the desires of our heart have not changed. We are "new creatures"...all things are new. If by chance we don't "choose" to "sow to Him", is He going to leave us to wander around like red headed step children? Will He do nothing to conform us? Where is your confidence, if not in the ONE who is performing that good work in us?
Philippians 1:6
Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:
Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:
Here is what I have found. Even when I don't "choose" to "sow to Him" as you say, I am hard pressed to do so. Who does that hard pressing? The one who gets all the credit, that's who.
andyc
New member
Paul is not talking about nations, he's talking to Jews and gentiles in the church in Rome. Israel as a nation wasn't cut off, but some of the branches, which means some of the people of Israel were cut out of the tree because the root was meant to inspire faith, but by rejecting faith they cut off the supply to the branches. These branches were replaced by wild branches that would receive the nourishment because they were drawing it up by faith.
So the obvious point Paul is making is that as long as the gentiles were in faith, they would receive all of the goodness promised to Abraham. But if they fell into unbelief, there was no means by which to draw on the goodness flowing from the root (promises to Abraham). As a consequence, the branches wither and become useless.
musterion
Well-known member
Anyone else see how stupid that is?
andyc
New member
Oh really?
Firstly
Romans 11:13 For I speak to you Gentiles........
Gentiles are not a nation. They are multitudes from all nations.
Secondly
Paul explains that some branches were cut off. Therefore he is talking about individuals, not the entire nation of Israel.
Right Divider
Body part
Ah Jamie.... always a redirect so nobody sees that you never actually respond to what other people are saying.
There are a number of folks, like yourself, that just like to talk to themselves.
You are full of AoG cliches'.
Romans 10
9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
Trusting what?
glorydaz
Well-known member
You want it to be talking about individuals and loss of salvation so much that you can't see what's right there in front of your face.
musterion
Well-known member
There. That's what people like him always believe because their own works are sure to measure up in the end.
A mans works must be their own wrought by them in God.
Joh 14:12 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.
1Ti 6:17 Charge them that are rich in this world, that they be not highminded, nor trust in uncertain riches, but in the living God, who giveth us richly all things to enjoy;
1Ti 6:18 That they do good, that they be rich in good works, ready to distribute, willing to communicate;
1Ti 6:19 Laying up in store for themselves a good foundation against the time to come, that they may lay hold on eternal life.
LA
Jamie Gigliotti
New member
Jesus gives himself to us. He gets all the credit for the giving. He does not force the gift of himself, we choose to receive Him. He works in us as we willing let Him. The boasting Paul talked about was boasting in and of oneself. If submitting to God's love and Spirit brings glory to Him, He gets the full credit, it's His glory that brings Him glory.
"For whatever one sows, that will He also reap. For the one who sows to his own flesh, will from the flesh reap corruption, but the one who sows from the Spirit will from the Spirit reap eternal life." Galatians 6:7-8
God's words, not mine.
We have a choice to either sow to Him or ourselves.
The Spirit changes us from glory to glory as we submit to Him. it is a process.
"Are being transformed into the same image from one degree of glory to another. For this comes from the Lord who is the Spirit." 2 Corinthians 3:18
Jamie Gigliotti
New member
Jesus personally, and finding intimacy with Him.
Jamie Gigliotti
New member
The comparisons describe the two possible conditions of all men.
musterion
Well-known member
No. You changed the Word of God.
andyc
New member
My bible says that some branches were broken off, but your version must say that the tree was cut down.