ECT Conditional salvationists deny the Cross and the Bible

L

Lazy afternoon

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LIFETIME MEMBER
andyc said:
Paul is not talking about nations, he's talking to Jews and gentiles in the church in Rome. Israel as a nation wasn't cut off, but some of the branches, which means some of the people of Israel were cut out of the tree because the root was meant to inspire faith, but by rejecting faith they cut off the supply to the branches. These branches were replaced by wild branches that would receive the nourishment because they were drawing it up by faith.

So the obvious point Paul is making is that as long as the gentiles were in faith, they would receive all of the goodness promised to Abraham. But if they fell into unbelief, there was no means by which to draw on the goodness flowing from the root (promises to Abraham). As a consequence, the branches wither and become useless.
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True.

This idea of a whole nation being cut off, and the reinstatement of it in the millennium is false.

Israel consists of all of Gods people who have faith in Christ, in fact God revealed His Son to all believers before and after He was born.

Joh 8:56 Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad.
Joh 8:57 Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham?
Joh 8:58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.

LA
 
andyc

andyc

New member
Lazy afternoon said:
True.

This idea of a whole nation being cut off, and the reinstatement of it in the millennium is false.

Israel consists of all of Gods people who have faith in Christ, in fact God revealed His Son to all believers before and after He was born.

Joh 8:56 Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad.
Joh 8:57 Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham?
Joh 8:58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.

LA
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Yeah its complete rubbish.
Basically hyper dispensationalists alter the meaning of scriptures in a way that is more appealing to the flesh. There's only one spiritual nation, one tree, one body, one bride, etc, however scripture likens it.
No one taught the nonsense a lot of dispies spew out here beyond 150 or so years ago.
 
musterion

musterion

Well-known member
Accidentally came across an interesting article, "Does It Really Matter What You Believe About Eternal Security?"

On other occasions I have individuals who declared, "I believe you can lose your salvation but I don't think I ever will. So I think [not know] that I will be saved five years from now." Dear friends, it is the epitome of arrogance and self-righteousness to think that while others can supposedly lose their salvation, that you never will! In other words, either you have faith in your ongoing faithfulness, or you think that your daily spiritual batting average will make the grade while others won't.
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http://www.duluthbible.org/filerequest/9922.pdf

Point #6 is the big one, but he could have wrapped the whole thing up with "It makes both God and Christ into liars."
 
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beloved57

beloved57

Well-known member
Jamie Gigliotti said:
Jesus gives himself to us. He gets all the credit for the giving. He does not force the gift of himself, we choose to receive Him. He works in us as we willing let Him. The boasting Paul talked about was boasting in and of oneself. If submitting to God's love and Spirit brings glory to Him, He gets the full credit, it's His glory that brings Him glory.

"For whatever one sows, that will He also reap. For the one who sows to his own flesh, will from the flesh reap corruption, but the one who sows from the Spirit will from the Spirit reap eternal life." Galatians 6:7-8
God's words, not mine.

We have a choice to either sow to Him or ourselves.

The Spirit changes us from glory to glory as we submit to Him. it is a process.
"Are being transformed into the same image from one degree of glory to another. For this comes from the Lord who is the Spirit." 2 Corinthians 3:18
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This is a strange religion you propagate!
 
Jamie Gigliotti

Jamie Gigliotti

New member
beloved57 said:
This is a strange religion you propagate!
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It's called free will to repent in response to the Holy Spirit. God is looking to create a free love relationship between us and Him. He is waiting for the prodigals to turn to Him. He is working in our hearts, but never forces.
 
musterion

musterion

Well-known member
So back to the OP, which part of this do you disagreers disagree with? Don't post more rabbit trails or distracting questions. Focus on this and take it apart piece by piece:

Romans 8:3-4: God condemned sin in the flesh in order for the believer to walk freely in Christ.

Whose flesh suffered the condemnation for sin? Christ's.

Whose sin was condemned? The believer's.

Was any aspect of the believer's sin (not sins, SIN) left unaddressed or not dealt with at the Cross? No (Col 1:13; 2:13; 3:13; Rom 8:1).

That, coupled with the believer's declared death to all condemning Law (Rom 7:4; Gal 2:19), is the basis for the believer's unconditional eternal safety in Christ.
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Take it apart.
 
1Mind1Spirit

1Mind1Spirit

Literal lunatic
musterion said:
So back to the OP, which part of this do you disagreers disagree with? Don't post more rabbit trails or distracting questions. Focus on this and take it apart piece by piece:

Take it apart.
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Easy.

ROMANS 8

12 Therefore *, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.
 
Jamie Gigliotti

Jamie Gigliotti

New member
Nick M said:
In what way? Break it down. This should be really easy. It makes me think you are avoiding it.
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I thought maybe you already knew more about than you wanted. Lol.

How do I trust Jesus?
First that He loves me. As much as my sins caused His torture, as much as my sins and my refusal of Him hurt His heart, He loves me; and when I first said Jesus I need you, I need your forgiveness, your love;. He came over me like rushing wind, His Spirit confirming in mine who He is.
This life is Hell without Him. Jesus said each day has trouble of its own, I see that clearly and need Him, His joy, His peace, His hope. I trust Him right now for this moment. He wants us to live in intimacy, closeness with Him everyday.
I've walked away before, His word warns we can... How foolish that is, How foolish I was and I pray I never do it again, knowing in His love there is joy and peace, and in my pride(rejection of Him) and my flesh, there is misery. The fear comes in knowing the outcome of rejecting Him.
 
Nick M

Nick M

Black Rifles Matter
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Everything but his accomplishment at the cross. I thought so. Paul laid it out in very direct sentences and you seem to dance around the topic. Let me help you.

Romans 5

18 Therefore, as through one man’s offense judgment came to all men, resulting in condemnation, even so through one Man’s righteous act the free gift came to all men, resulting in justification of life.

Ephesians 1

13 In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise

1 Corinthians 15

3 For I delivered to you first of all that which I also received: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, 4 and that He was buried, and that He rose again the third day according to the Scriptures,




He went to the cross so justice could be served for sin. There is nothing more to do to be in God's favor. Believe and trust in what he did and you shall live.
 
Jamie Gigliotti

Jamie Gigliotti

New member
Nick M said:
Everything but his accomplishment at the cross. I thought so. Paul laid it out in very direct sentences and you seem to dance around the topic. Let me help you.

Romans 5

18 Therefore, as through one man’s offense judgment came to all men, resulting in condemnation, even so through one Man’s righteous act the free gift came to all men, resulting in justification of life.

Ephesians 1

13 In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise

1 Corinthians 15

3 For I delivered to you first of all that which I also received: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, 4 and that He was buried, and that He rose again the third day according to the Scriptures,




He went to the cross so justice could be served for sin. There is nothing more to do to be in God's favor. Believe and trust in what he did and you shall live.
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The cross is the basis for forgiveness and reconciliation of our relationship. There is no other way.
 
Jamie Gigliotti

Jamie Gigliotti

New member
Nick M said:
Everything but his accomplishment at the cross. I thought so. Paul laid it out in very direct sentences and you seem to dance around the topic. Let me help you.

Romans 5

18 Therefore, as through one man’s offense judgment came to all men, resulting in condemnation, even so through one Man’s righteous act the free gift came to all men, resulting in justification of life.

Ephesians 1

13 In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise

1 Corinthians 15

3 For I delivered to you first of all that which I also received: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, 4 and that He was buried, and that He rose again the third day according to the Scriptures,




He went to the cross so justice could be served for sin. There is nothing more to do to be in God's favor. Believe and trust in what he did and you shall live.
Click to expand...
Nick He died not only to forgive you, but to move you to give all of yourself to Him. You can trust Him with everything...
 
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