ECT Conditional salvationists deny the Cross and the Bible

[heir]

Having forgiven.

Past tense.:think:

Yes! We were forgiven when we were quickened together with Him!

Colossians 2:10 And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:

Colossians 2:11 In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:

Colossians 2:12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.

Colossians 2:13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;

Having forgiven is hath forgiven!

Ephesians 4:32 And be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ's sake hath forgiven you.

 

[SaulToPaul 2]

Your search will be in vain. You cannot show where a member of the Body of Christ can be uncrucified, unburied, unrisen with Christ and unsealed by the Holy Spirit.

andyc the doubtful needs to be saved by grace through the faith of Christ.

 

[patrick jane]

andyc the doubtful needs to be saved by grace through the faith of Christ.

 

[SaulToPaul 2]

I miss saint john w the great!

 

[andyc]

Your search will be in vain. You cannot show where a member of the Body of Christ can be uncrucified, unburied, unrisen with Christ and unsealed by the Holy Spirit.

Then remove faith.
The provision is by grace, but faith lays hold of it.

 

[andyc]

andyc the doubtful needs to be saved by grace through the faith of Christ.

Too much of a reliance on a misunderstanding of Elizabethan English. The faith of Jesus is not talking about Jesus' own faith, just as the knowledge of Jesus is not talking about Jesus' own knowledge.
It's faith that comes through the gospel of Jesus, just as knowledge comes through the gospel of Jesus.

 

[andyc]

I miss saint john w the great!

The IRS is probably chasing him across the States.

 

[SaulToPaul 2]

Too much of a reliance on a misunderstanding of Elizabethan English. The faith of Jesus is not talking about Jesus' own faith, just as the knowledge of Jesus is not talking about Jesus' own knowledge.
It's faith that comes through the gospel of Jesus, just as knowledge comes through the gospel of Jesus.

:chuckle:

 

[andyc]

Colossians 1:21-24
And you, who once were alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now He has reconciled in the body of His flesh through death, to present you holy, and blameless, and above reproach in His sight—— if indeed you continue in the faith, grounded and steadfast, and are not moved away from the hope of the gospel which you heard, which was preached to every creature under heaven, of which I, Paul, became a minister.

Paul states very clearly that to be classed as blameless, which is to be cleansed and forgiven, there is a requirement to continue in the faith.

The condition of salvation is always faith.

 

[andyc]

:chuckle:

You may chuckle, but there are other examples that make the point clear. You just don't like it.

Philippians 3:8
8 Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ

Is Paul counting all things but loss for Jesus' own personal knowledge?
Or is he talking knowing Christ?

The King James translation is not wrong, as "the knowledge of Christ" means the same as knowing Christ, just as the faith of Christ means the same as faith that comes through knowing Christ.

Quite obviously it's the same thing, but your subtle twist alters the meaning of the text.

 

[SaulToPaul 2]

You may chuckle, but there are other examples that make the point clear. You just don't like it.

Philippians 3:8
8 Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ

Is Paul counting all things but loss for Jesus' own personal knowledge?
Or is he talking knowing Christ?

The King James translation is not wrong, as "the knowledge of Christ" means the same as knowing Christ, just as the faith of Christ means the same as faith that comes through knowing Christ.

Quite obviously it's the same thing, but your subtle twist alters the meaning of the text.

:doh:

 

[andyc]

No response as usual. Run along.

 

[SaulToPaul 2]

No response as usual. Run along.

because it was stupid

 

[andyc]

because it was stupid

Well if you'd like to explain why :chuckle:

 

[heir]

Then remove faith.
The provision is by grace, but faith lays hold of it.

His faith!

Galatians 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.


...

Ephesians 2:7 That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.

Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

Ephesians 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Now where's all that scripture showing where a member of the BoC can be uncrucified, unburied, unrisen and unsealed?

 

[heir]

Too much of a reliance on a misunderstanding of Elizabethan English. The faith of Jesus is not talking about Jesus' own faith, just as the knowledge of Jesus is not talking about Jesus' own knowledge.
It's faith that comes through the gospel of Jesus, just as knowledge comes through the gospel of Jesus.

You may chuckle, but there are other examples that make the point clear. You just don't like it.

Philippians 3:8
8 Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ

Is Paul counting all things but loss for Jesus' own personal knowledge?
Or is he talking knowing Christ?

The King James translation is not wrong, as "the knowledge of Christ" means the same as knowing Christ, just as the faith of Christ means the same as faith that comes through knowing Christ.

Quite obviously it's the same thing, but your subtle twist alters the meaning of the text.

O man, what a mess!

 

[andyc]

Phil 2:8-9

Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ, And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:

This shows just how biased STP is.
Paul sates that he counts all things but loss for the sake of the knowledge of Christ. And yet even STP wouldn't accept that Paul is talking about Christ's own knowledge in this verse.
But in the very next verse he claims Christ's supposed own faith, simply because of the feel good factor of the false concept that it is Christ's faith that saves people, not our own.

Luke 7:50 Then He said to the woman, "Your faith has saved you. Go in peace."

 

[andyc]

O man, what a mess!

Another one who cannot explain why.
They can't.

 

[SaulToPaul 2]

Phil 2:8-9

Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ, And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:

This shows just how biased STP is.
Paul sates that he counts all things but loss for the sake of the knowledge of Christ. And yet even STP wouldn't accept that Paul is talking about Christ's own knowledge in this verse.
But in the very next verse he claims Christ's supposed own faith, simply because of the feel good factor of the false concept that it is Christ's faith that saves people, not our own.

Luke 7:50 Then He said to the woman, "Your faith has saved you. Go in peace."

:chuckle:

Keep digging your grave.

Silly.

 

[andyc]

His faith!

Galatians 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.


...

Ephesians 2:7 That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.

Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

Ephesians 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Now where's all that scripture showing where a member of the BoC can be uncrucified, unburied, unrisen and unsealed?

Grace is the offer of salvation, as he has done all the work. Faith simply is our part in receiving. That is why it is not of ourselves, because we did no work to merit anything, we simply believe.