ARCHIVE: The Apostle Pauls affirms that a Christian can sin.

[Lighthouse]

Jeffery Dahmer was dead. Jeffery Dahmer went to hell because he had not received life. That is what salvation is. Life from the dead.

Actually I heard that Dahmer accepted Christ, before he was beat to death with a brromstick. Whether it's true or not, I don't know. But I heard it.

 

[Lighthouse]

God is not blind nor is He mocked. If He is omniscient and omnipresent, even in Open Theism terms, He sees and knows all.

God does not forget sins that you, the devil, your buddy, etc. sees and remembers. The idea of God 'forgetting' sin is that He choses to not bring it up again based on a substitute for the penalty of sin. In justification, He legally treats us just as if we never sinned, based on the work of the cross that satisfies love and holiness. Sanctification works actual righteousness into our lives, not just forensic or legal justification.

To think that God could see King David's sin, but could not see the sins of NT believers is dispensationalism gone awry undermining explicit revelation of who God is and His ways.

Was I asking you?

But since you want to get in on it, is God omnipotent enough to not look upon sin if He doesn't want to?

 

[Nathon Detroit]

Sozo,, I am going to ask you to do something that will not be easy for you. It will not be easy for me ether but but I am going to work at it.

First of all there are many on this board that are the , "Weak ones for whom Christ died". You and I have knowledge that these folks do not have and yes they have been sent to spy out our liberty. They have been sent that through our liberty through the knowledge of the truth that the week ones should be destroyed. I am not in favor that the weak ones should be destroyed because of my exercise of my liberty that I received from Christ. That is not the way that our Father intended for us to use our liberty. This will not be easy but then if it were easy then everyone would do it but we know that every one does not. Though we may have to bite our tongue every now and then let's let the love of Christ constrain us for the sake of the, "weak ones for whom Christ died" We know that the weak ones are not saved just having there sins forgiven at the cross but have yet to receive life at the resurrection of Christ.

In Christ

:e4e:

I thought you were gonna ask Sozo something. I don't see any request in that post, do you?

 

[elected4ever]

Actually I heard that Dahmer accepted Christ, before he was beat to death with a broomstick. Whether it's true or not, I don't know. But I heard it.

Possible but not likely

 

[godrulz]

Was I asking you?

But since you want to get in on it, is God omnipotent enough to not look upon sin if He doesn't want to?

This Enyartian compromise of God's omnipotence is not defensible. The Open View says that God does not know the future exhaustively because it is inherently unknowable as settled if it is not settled.

It correctly affirms that the past and present are known exhaustively. Practically, how can God not recall your sin (we are not saying that he repeats a video of past sins over and over) if you can recall it forcing Him to remember it (it becomes absurd to contemplate because your view is flawed and undermines even the Open Theist view of omniscience)?! You are not a god who knows more about your past life than God does. Justification is treating us legally as if we never sinned, not a divine memory lapse into soap opera amnesia.

 

[Lighthouse]

Agreed! The whole issue of rewards is problematic in light of our sins not being counted against us. I think Paul is not talking about our future status in heaven as if some will be awarded more or less depending on whether or not they ‘sin’ after coming to Christ, but is rather referring to the singularity of reward: being afforded full and free admission into the Kingdom of God (as Peter describes it). Peter admonishes us to supplement our faith with a list of virtues; gifts that if possessed and fostered will keep us from being blind and useless in the Kingdom. Apparently a lot of effort/works that Christians tend to place great emphasis and value on just don’t make much of or any real contribution to the work of the Kingdom. They will be burned. But, we won’t.

The rewards are based not on sin [bad works], but on good works.

 

[Lighthouse]

I don't 'recognize' my brother according to the flesh, I recognize him as "in Christ" not by denying his sins but by recognizing that his sins are ‘covered’ and our relationship is strengthened not by denying sin, but by gently restoring one (either he me or me him) overtaken by sin, lest temptation and sin overtake us both. And making the transition from knowing Christ according to the flesh is made possible by the Spirit of Christ dwelling in us. It is only “new creatures’ who can make this distinction either in Jesus Christ (resurrected and glorified) or in individuals (as new creatures) who have not yet received their new bodies in resurrection from the grave.

When I see Lighthouse’s smiling face I recognize him by his physical characteristics. I know him as a brother by the Spirit that dwells in him. Thank God it isn’t by his theology, nor mine.

I wonder how Craig recognizes me.

 

[elected4ever]

I thought you were gonna ask Sozo something. I don't see any request in that post, do you?

It is an implied request. Not so much a question. My bad if you you thought that.

 

[godrulz]

The rewards are based not on sin [bad works], but on good works.

Sins are not 'bad works'. Sin is lawlessness, selfishness, rebellion, disobedience, etc. Giving money with a wrong motive is doing a good work with wrong motives. Commiting adultery is a sin, not a bad 'work'.


Good vs bad works depends on motive.

Faith vs unbelief determines destiny (heaven/hell).

Degrees of sin (unbelievers) determines degrees of punishment (GWT judgment). The nature and amount of good works (stewardship) done with the right motive relates to our rewards (I Cor. 3; Bema Seat judgment of believers).

 

[Philetus]

I wonder how Craig recognizes me.

Your voice, and not to be funny, your smell, both physical characteristics. He too sins so according to S,E&L, I guess beyond that he doesn't recognize you. :chuckle:

 

[Philetus]

The rewards are based not on sin [bad works], but on good works.

Really?

 

[Poly]

Sozo,, I am going to ask you to do something that will not be easy for you. It will not be easy for me ether but but I am going to work at it.

First of all there are many on this board that are the , "Weak ones for whom Christ died". You and I have knowledge that these folks do not have and yes they have been sent to spy out our liberty. They have been sent that through our liberty through the knowledge of the truth that the week ones should be destroyed. I am not in favor that the weak ones should be destroyed because of my exercise of my liberty that I received from Christ. That is not the way that our Father intended for us to use our liberty. This will not be easy but then if it were easy then everyone would do it but we know that every one does not. Though we may have to bite our tongue every now and then let's let the love of Christ constrain us for the sake of the, "weak ones for whom Christ died" We know that the weak ones are not saved just having there sins forgiven at the cross but have yet to receive life at the resurrection of Christ.

In Christ

:e4e:

I would think that you non-weak Christians would understand some of the basic stuff such as Jeffrey Dahmer did indeed have sin.

 

[Lighthouse]

Sins are not 'bad works'. Sin is lawlessness, selfishness, rebellion, disobedience, etc. Giving money with a wrong motive is doing a good work with wrong motives. Commiting adultery is a sin, not a bad 'work'.


Good vs bad works depends on motive.

Faith vs unbelief determines destiny (heaven/hell).

Degrees of sin (unbelievers) determines degrees of punishment (GWT judgment). The nature and amount of good works (stewardship) done with the right motive relates to our rewards (I Cor. 3; Bema Seat judgment of believers).

:doh:

It was an illustration!

 

[Lighthouse]

Your voice, and not to be funny, your smell, both physical characteristics. He too sins so according to S,E&L, I guess beyond that he doesn't recognize you. :chuckle:

I know. I was just trying to be funny. Anyway, Craig's sin is in the flesh, and not in the Spirit, same as mine, or yours, or even Sozo's.

 

[godrulz]

I know. I was just trying to be funny. Anyway, Craig's sin is in the flesh, and not in the Spirit, same as mine, or yours, or even Sozo's.

We have one will, not two wills. Take responsibility for your own actions instead of blaming a nebulous, Augustinian, multiple personality flesh disorder (metaphor ring a bell?).

 

[Lighthouse]

We have one will, not two wills. Take responsibility for your own actions instead of blaming a nebulous, Augustinian, multiple personality flesh disorder (metaphor ring a bell?).

I have a will, Christ has a will. Only one can be at work in me at a time. My personality [sole personality] is sinful. Christ's is not. He identifies me with Himself, and therefore perceives not the sinful flesh [all of who I am apart from Him]. So I have decided to view myself the same way, through His eyes.

 

[Nathon Detroit]

It is an implied request. Not so much a question. My bad if you you thought that.

And just what was the "implied request"? Please humor us weak Christians.

On a side note... I am soooooo happy I moved up from "going to hell" to being a "weak Christian" , yeah for me!!

 

[Philetus]

I know. I was just trying to be funny. Anyway, Craig's sin is in the flesh, and not in the Spirit, same as mine, or yours, or even Sozo's.

I caught the humor and responded in like fashion. But don't miss the point.

 

[Philetus]

Thinly veiled arrogance/pride. The so-called weak ones are actually more mature than the gruesome twosome.

:up: and :rotfl:
I’m afraid the gruesome twosome is quickly becoming a tyrannical trio.
I pray this is not the case.



I wish Lighthouse would respond to my post from 1 & 2 Timothy.

 

[Poly]

On a side note... I am soooooo happy I moved up from "going to hell" to being a "weak Christian" , yeah for me!!

Congratulations!! :up: