young girl tells "friend" to kill himself. Is she responsible?

Rusha

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Why is his mental illness excusable and hers not?

You haven't shown that she is mentally ill. Also, he is dead. There is no "do overs" or "treatment" for him.

Perhaps she didn't take him seriously ...

I condemn her for her words, not for his actions. She could have just as easily replied that such action would be responsible for the heartache of his parents and everyone who loves him.

At this point, she really needs to distance herself from his family.
 

PureX

Well-known member
We don't know that she's mentally ill. We do know that he was.
How do you know either one of them was, or was not mentally ill? If it's based on their behavior, then clearly, they both were. If it's not used on their behavior, what is it based on?
 

Town Heretic

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You haven't shown that she is mentally ill.
Beat me to it.

Also, he is dead. There is no "do overs" or "treatment" for him.
And few jurisdictions still prosecute attempted suicides, though it is grounds for commitment and psychiatric examination.

Perhaps she didn't take him seriously ...
It's hard to read my last from the police in that light, but anything is possible. I'd rather that be the case.

I condemn her for her words, not for his actions. She could have just as easily replied that such action would be responsible for the heartache of his parents and everyone who loves him.
Best case scenario she's going to have that to live with.

...Why is her behavior any more "deplorable" than his?
Because his was the product of an illness and we don't know that's true of her, assuming the evidence is as reported. She might very well be a little sociopath who wasn't clever enough to consider the electronic record. :idunno:
 

PureX

Well-known member
Perhaps she didn't take him seriously ...
Perhaps she did, but believed that suicide was a good thing, just as he did. In which case they were both equally ill. Or maybe she was willing to see him die just so she could get some attention. That sounds like some pretty ill thinking, too. I fact, I can't really imagine any reasoning for her actions that isn't expressive of illness. Can you?
 

Town Heretic

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Perhaps she did, but believed that suicide was a good thing, just as he did. In which case they were both equally ill. Or maybe she was willing to see him die just so she could get some attention. That sounds like some pretty ill thinking, too. I fact, I can't really imagine any reasoning for her actions that isn't expressive of illness. Can you?

Or maybe she's just a sociopath.

From that article I referenced earlier:

"The girl is also accused of sending text messages to her friends and Roy's mother expressing concern about Roy's whereabouts on the day he committed suicide, despite having been in constant contact with him and encouraging him to take his own life."​
 

PureX

Well-known member
Because his was the product of an illness and we don't know that's true of her, assuming the evidence is as reported. She might very well be a little sociopath who wasn't clever enough to consider the electronic record.
What possible explanation could there be for her wanting him to kill himself that doesn't express illness?

Why is her wanting him to die any less "sick" than him wanting to die?
 

PureX

Well-known member
I find this irrational need to assign blame, fascinating. Clearly, two sick people were feeding each other's sickness. Which happens all the time. Yet the automatic response, here, is to try and assign blame, to someone, somehow, rather than just accept the obvious. I find that very strange. And I don't understand it.
 

Town Heretic

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What possible explanation could there be for her wanting him to kill himself that doesn't express illness?
Evil. Willful depravity and a lack of moral compass.

Or maybe she's wired wrong, in which case she needs to be taken out of society before anyone else is harmed.

Why is her wanting him to die any less "sick" than him wanting to die?
Did you really just ask why wanting to kill yourself isn't on par with wanting to cause someone else to die?

I find this irrational need to assign blame, here, fascinating.
There's nothing irrational about protecting society and process of trial is all about assigning blame and responding to it.
 

Rusha

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Perhaps she did, but believed that suicide was a good thing, just as he did. In which case they were both equally ill. Or maybe she was willing to see him die just so she could get some attention. That sounds like some pretty ill thinking, too. I fact, I can't really imagine any reasoning for her actions that isn't expressive of illness. Can you?

Yes. I can. She has a cruel streak and didn't care if her moment of glory meant her friend lost his life.

Not every act is about mental illness. From the article, it seems he was mentally ill or severely depressed.

She, OTOH, seems to be unsympathetic and even mean when it came to her friend.

I simply cannot sympathize with this girl and wouldn't blame the family for any negativity they feel towards her.
 

PureX

Well-known member
Yes. I can. She has a cruel streak and didn't care if her moment of glory meant her friend lost his life.

Not every act is about mental illness. From the article, it seems he was mentally ill or severely depressed.
Why do you think "severe depression" is a mental illness but sociopathy is not?
She, OTOH, seems to be unsympathetic and even mean when it came to her friend.
Sociopaths are incapable of feeling empathy for others, and very often become narcissistic as a result. Her behavior is classic narcissistic sociopathic.
 

Town Heretic

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Why do you think "severe depression" is a mental illness but sociopathy is not?
It's a personality disorder, one that doesn't relieve the person of legal blame and guilt, given the problem isn't a lack of understanding of what they're doing and the consequence of their actions.

That's why it's never been a defense at law.

Sociopaths are incapable of feeling empathy for others, and very often become narcissistic as a result. Her behavior is classic narcissistic sociopathic.
If the reports are right it's possible. And again, all the more reason to adjudicate and get her off the streets.
 

PureX

Well-known member
There's nothing irrational about protecting society and process of trial is all about assigning blame and responding to it.
This is not a court, you are not a judge, and no one is on trial, except in your imagination. So … why? Why are you all engaging in this particular judicial fantasy? How is it serving you, if not your ego, or some other internal similar need?
 

Town Heretic

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This is not a court, you are not a judge, and no one is on trial, except in your imagination. So … why?
Well, I entered to do little more than explain the context for the charges and to respond to efforts that were focusing on elements that were either not properly in play or considered out of context. I didn't get into judging and have mostly qualified speculation as hypothetical using, "if" and "then" and adding the truth would have to be established by a trier of fact.

I haven't adjudicated her guilt or attempted to. And I'd say you're not a public defender or a psychiatrist, but it hasn't kept you from speculating and defending on the point.

Why are you all engaging in this particular judicial fantasy? How is it serving you, if not your ego, or some other internal similar need?
Not applicable to my part here. But when legal matters are being discussed I'll usually step in to offer an explanation of what's going on and why for the interested laymen.

What's in this for you? You seem determined to judge everyone else's interest and participation. This isn't a court room you know. :think: The dress code is much less formal, for one thing.
 

Desert Reign

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There was a debate on FOX earlier about the teen who encouraged her "friend" (Some friend she ws) to kill himself.. very tragic that he listened to that demonized... uh.. female dog

And the people discussing it acted like she is not responsible for his death.

I think that is stupid. She may not be responsible for first degree murder (although you could reasonably conclude...) but she is guilty of manslaughter or something like that..

http://video.foxnews.com/v/40860148...urging-friend-to-kill-himself/?#sp=show-clips


Life is cheap since Roe v Wade came along


++

The law cannot be a substitute or guardian for true righteousness. There are many nasty and misguided people in the world but you can't expect the law to deal with all of them. You have to learn to deal with them yourself. It may even be that your desire to see the law deal with them and make them responsible is really an expression of your own unwillingness to take responsibility. It's a bit like the junior school tell-tale who is always grassing their classmates to the teachers.
 

GFR7

New member
Which is a good reason to try to get prosecutions based on thoughts is a horrible idea. (he wasnt convicted of manslaughter - theres a reason he wasnt, he didnt make the person do what they did and he didnt assist them in it) Another bad comparison.


However, under thought crimes - you could be held accountable one day for saying homosexuality is wrong if someone listened to you and killed themselves, in fact the bible could be made illegal, since it points out sin and someone might kill themselves, right?

Where can you show this girl tormented him, you cant, you also cant prove it was her idea for him to commit suicide, since his own family admits he had tried before he even knew her. Which is why he was on antidepressants. And you cannot prove she made him do it or knew he was actually doing it since you cant prove her thinking.

Do you really want to set a precedent for everyone else being responsible for what an individual decides to do themselves?
Agreed: No, I don't.

However: She is not being charged with premeditated murder, but with involuntary manslaughter.
She was not responsible for his being suicidal, but at that moment in time she was the only one on earth who knew he was in back of the KMart preparing to gas himself in his car. She needed to call 911, and tell them to check it out, if he was really there, doing that. Nothing more. There was a case where a 15 year old girl saw her friend being sexually attacked by 2 males at a party, and she did nothing. They were considering charging her, because in our society you are expected to call 911. Nothing more. Even though this kid had attempted suicide numerous times and his parents knew this, at that moment she was the only one who knew it was in progress.

Here’s Why This Teen Is Charged With Involuntary Manslaughter After Her Boyfriend’s Suicide
She faces up to 20 years in jail for allegedly "strongly influenc[ing]" his decision.

by deepa lakshmin 3/3/2015

Last Sunday we covered the upsetting news of a teen girl, Michelle Carter, who allegedly coaxed her boyfriend, 18-year-old Conrad Roy III, into committing suicide. On July 13, 2014 in Fairhaven, Massachusetts, Roy apparently died by suicide inside his truck, where police later found his body and his cell phone.

Investigators discovered that Carter exchanged over 1,000 texts with him before his death. The Bristol District Attorney’s office believes these texts “strongly influenced” Roy’s actions that night. It’s important to note Roy’s family reported that he had previously shown signs of depression and emotional struggles, which may have left him more open to suggestion.

“It is alleged that Ms. Carter had firsthand knowledge of Roy’s suicidal thoughts,” the district attorney’s office told CBS affiliate WBZ. “Instead of attempting to assist him or notify his family or school officials, Ms. Carter is alleged to have strongly influenced his decision to take his own life, encouraged him to commit suicide and guided him in his engagement of activities which led to his death.”
.....................

There seems to be some confusion about what exactly constitutes involuntary manslaughter, so we asked criminal defense attorney Daniel Perlman, who has not worked on Roy and Carter’s case, to clarify. He told us he is “puzzled” by the involuntary charge as well.

“There’s never an affirmative obligation to come to someone’s aid but here … this is someone who knows that they’re dealing with [someone] who’s very fragile and emotional, who’s thinking about and actually trying to kill themselves,” Perlman said. “She was actually telling him to do it [and] how to do it, according to these sources.”

http://www.mtv.com/news/2094094/girl-boyfriend-suicide-involuntary-manslaughtercharge/
 
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