young girl tells "friend" to kill himself. Is she responsible?

[GFR7]

Neither are you. Thats why she wasnt charged with that. Do you even fully understand what assisted suicide is and what those laws were designed to stop? They have nothing to do with this.

She didn't assist him.

Ill wager she doesn't get convicted either of what she was actually charged with.

His parents knew he was mentally ill, they had more responsibility for seeing about him than anyone else. An offhanded comment while disgusting, didn't cause his death, he did, plain and simple.

I agree with you in the legal sense. No, she didn't assist him. But can you imagine if one of your own children was feeling this way, and their "best friend" texted them to "go ahead and do it". Wouldn't you want to punish the person somehow?

 

[GFR7]

You're just not qualified to make that call. But as to the prosecutor, who is, whether or not he succeeds in mounting a successful prosecution, he's considering Commonwealth v. Welansky, 316 Mass. 383, which established that wanton and/or reckless conduct leading to culpability can be evidenced by either affirmative acts (like encouraging someone who has interrupted a suicide attempt to try again) or by failures to act where a duty exists (like being a close friend who fails to notify anyone his friend is in the act of committing suicide). The act or omission has to embody a disregard for the likely consequence/harm to another (like understanding her encouragement could reasonably lead to his death).

It isn't a reach, successful or not.


No, but then I'd know the standard in play before I ventured an opinion.

So there IS a legal standard, then..... :think: Bravo to you for clarifying that.

 

[Angel4Truth]

Similar to what Rusha has said, she viewed his death as a bit of fun: She looked forward to being the grieving best friend, holding a vigil for him, posting Facebook messages to his parents.

You have no evidence of that at all. She said herself she thought he would be threatening the same thing the very next day, in other words he did it all the time. There is no evidence that she knew that he was serious about it right then either, or knew he had it all set up, she wasnt there.

This is why she said "Get back in." when he got out of the car. She should have called 911. He didn't really want to go through with it. How deplorable was her behavior? Legally, maybe not, but it was MASSIVELY unethical and horrid. :nono:

Should she have called 911 all the time?

Did his parents know he had issues? yes and they knew he had tried it before and knew he was on antidepressants.

yes, it was a horrible thing to say, but she didnt kill or help him.

What if he wanted to be with her and she was breaking up with him and he said he would kill himself if she didnt stay with him, would she be guilty then if she said go ahead, im not staying with you (after it was often used as a threat to get his way?)

Shes not an adult and shes not his parents - she isnt responsible to know his history or his med usage and the like, shes a teen.

What she said was bad and ill bet if she has a conscience shell suffer what she said for the rest of her life, but she didnt kill him or give him the idea even.

 

[Town Heretic]

Neither are you.

I'm a licensed practitioner of the law, having passed the requisite courses and bars allowing me to practice in various jurisdictions and before the S. Ct...and I've been successful at the state and federal level.

And you?

But I noted the prosecutor, licensed and trained in his jurisdiction is qualified and has set a particular charge, one that can be advanced in this case and is related, by the Patients Rights Counsel, as an address of assisted suicide.

That's appropriate given the charge here is in relation to a suicide. It is her conduct in furthering that effort and in being instrumental in its conclusion that has led to the prosecutor's action. The rest is for a judge or jury to decide, unless there is a plea bargain of some sort.

Thats why she wasnt charged with that.

Wasn't charged with what? There's no "assisted suicide" on the books in Mass.

Do you even fully understand what assisted suicide is and what those laws were designed to stop? They have nothing to do with this.

Supra.

 

[GFR7]

You have no evidence of that at all. She said herself she thought he would be threatening the same thing the very next day, in other words he did it all the time.



Should she have called 911 all the time?

Did his parents know he had issues? yes and they knew he had tried it before and knew he was on antidepressants.

yes, it was a horrible thing to say, but she didnt kill or help him.

What if he wanted to be with her and she was breaking up with him and he said he would kill himself if she didnt stay with him, would she be guilty then if she said go ahead, im not staying with you (after it was often used as a threat to get his way?)

Shes not an adult and shes not his parents - she isnt responsible to know his history or his med usage and the like, shes a teen.

What she said was bad and ill bet if she has a conscience shell suffer what she said for the rest of her life, but she didnt kill him or give him the idea even.

I can't recall now where, but a while back I had read an article about her desire to play "the grieving friend". If it was an exaggeration, then I would rethink this.

I agree, there has to be a line drawn with regard to culpability. But what about Good Samaritan laws (you see someone getting mugged across the street; it's not your doing, you walk on by---then get charged under the Good Samaritan laws.

 

[Angel4Truth]

Again, how did she assist him, did she set it up? Did she provide his vehicle, did she know for a fact that he was right there about to do it even? Good luck counselor.

You are reaching badly.

I guess according to you if i told someone to drop dead and then they killed themselves, i would be guilty of assisted suicide.

We all know the words drop dead, is assistance in death right?

waiting for a response to this.

 

[Angel4Truth]

I can't recall now where, but a while back I had read an article about her desire to play "the grieving friend". If it was an exaggeration, then I would rethink this.

I agree, there has to be a line drawn with regard to culpability. But what about Good Samaritan laws (you see someone getting mugged across the street; it's not your doing, you walk on by---then get charged under the Good Samaritan laws.

You need to look up good samaritan law, its to protect people who try to help, not to force people to get involved.

 

[GFR7]

You need to look up good samaritan law, its to protect people who try to help, not to force people to get involved.

Well, I was taking it from the Seinfeld final episode--remember they get jailed for letting that fat guy get robbed? :chuckle:

 

[Angel4Truth]

Well, I was taking it from the Seinfeld final episode--remember they get jailed for letting that fat guy get robbed? :chuckle:

No, i dont remember that as i dont watch that show, nor do i get what i know about things off a comedy sitcom.

 

[Angel4Truth]

I agree with you in the legal sense. No, she didn't assist him. But can you imagine if one of your own children was feeling this way, and their "best friend" texted them to "go ahead and do it". Wouldn't you want to punish the person somehow?

No, i would be hurt at them, but i wouldnt want someone else to blame for what he chose to do himself. If i blamed anyone, i would most likely blame myself for not seeing that he got the help he needed or the signs that he needed help.

We live in a day and age where its everyone elses fault.

 

[GFR7]

No, i dont remember that as i dont watch that show, nor do i get what i know about things off a comedy sitcom.

Well, it was very funny...... :think:

 

[Town Heretic]

waiting for a response to this.

Waiting for an assumptive bit to be treated as though it was on point when it isn't?

Now as to what is on point, here it is again:...the prosecuting attorney is considering Commonwealth v. Welansky, 316 Mass. 383, which established that wanton and/or reckless conduct leading to culpability can be evidenced by either affirmative acts (like encouraging someone who has interrupted a suicide attempt to try again) or by failures to act where a duty exists (like being a close friend who fails to notify anyone his friend is in the act of committing suicide). The act or omission has to embody a disregard for the likely consequence/harm to another (like understanding her encouragement could reasonably lead to his death).

That's what he's looking at and the charge is involuntary manslaughter, relating to what? A suicide. A suicide she helped to its conclusion when she was in the position to have potentially stopped it but instead arguably facilitated in conclusion, leading an emotionally overwrought and vulnerable human being to his destruction, if the encouraging remarks, the get back in the truck advance can be sustained.

 

[Angel4Truth]

Waiting for an assumptive bit to be treated as though it was on point when it isn't? Sorry, but that's not my job.

Neither is prosecuting this case your job, yet you put forth that she is guilty of assisted suicide (even though she isnt even charged with that), so prove it counselor, how did she assist?

Back up your theory. Explain what it is (assisted suicide) and then how she is guilty of it. (all definitions ive seen of it, there is no way she could be guilty of it by even a massive stretch of the definition)

How did she assist him in his suicide?

 

[Town Heretic]

Neither is prosecuting this case your job, yet you put forth that she is guilty of assisted suicide (even though she isnt even charged with that), so prove it counselor, how did she assist?

Back up your theory.

I've set out everything that needs to be to sustain the reasonableness of his charge, successful or not in prosecution, and its relation to a suicide.

And, for the third or fourth time, there is no assisted suicide charge that could be set in Mass. Look at that link again and what I related about how this sort of circumstance is met in various jurisdictions.


And I didn't advance a theory, I noted a fact:

It's a felony of one sort or another to aid or encourage someone to commit suicide.

Here's a state by state look.

In Alaska, by way of example, it's manslaughter, § 11.41.120 (a) (2)

The facts as we have them indicate she encouraged the young man who had at least temporarily thwarted his own act.

 

[Angel4Truth]

I've set out everything that needs to be to sustain the reasonableness of his charge, successful or not in prosecution, and its relation to a suicide.

And, for the third or fourth time, there is no assisted suicide charge that could be set in Mass. Look at that link again and what I related about how this sort of circumstance is met in various jurisdictions.

yeah, i didnt think you could put forth how she assisted because she didnt.

 

[Town Heretic]

yeah, i didnt think you could put forth how she assisted because she didnt.

Here's what I wrote on the point:

It's a felony of one sort or another to aid or encourage someone to commit suicide.

Here's a state by state look.

In Alaska, by way of example, it's manslaughter, § 11.41.120 (a) (2)

As collected by the Patients Rights Council, these are the relevant laws applied in instances where someone aids another in the ending of their own life. The facts as we have them indicate she encouraged the young man who had at least temporarily thwarted his own act.

I went from that premise to the Welansky case and standard, applying it to the particulars. And that's the whole of it and why the prosecutor leveled the charge he did in relation to a suicide, which is what he is alleging her actions furthered.

 

[Angel4Truth]

In the same vein, what of this situation?

http://www.deathandtaxesmag.com/250...suicide-after-dad-posts-public-shaming-video/

Its horrible and he will suffer greatly, but he didn't cause her to commit suicide, he could be guilty of abuse though, more would have to be known about their dynamic.

 

[Angel4Truth]

Here's what I wrote on the point:


As collected by the Patients Rights Council, these are the relevant laws applied in instances where someone aids another in the ending of their own life. The facts as we have them indicate she encouraged the young man who had at least temporarily thwarted his own act.

I went from that premise to the Welansky case and standard, applying it to the particulars. And that's the whole of it and why the prosecutor leveled the charge he did in relation to a suicide, which is what he is alleging her actions furthered.

She didn't aid him in any way - can you prove she knew he was going to do it? No. From her own words about it, he threatened it all the time, and thats backed up by his own parents and his other friends.

His own idea and he was on antidepressants. She didn't take him seriously. Shes not responsible. Period and she didn't assist him, she provided no way for him to do it, nor was it her idea.

If a person who advocated suicide for terminally ill people said " go ahead" if asked what you think about them comitting suicide because they are in pain, did they assist that person?

No. It wasnt their idea, and they didnt aid them in carrying it out. You keep missing the assist part, there is no evidence that she assisted him in any way. His parents and other friends substantiate it was his idea and he threatened it all the time.

If anyone shares in any responsibility it would be his parents and therapist who put him on antidepressants and knew he was still threatening it. That teen girl is not an adult, not a parent, not a doctor, not a counselor.

 

[Town Heretic]

She didn't aid him in any way - can you prove she knew he was going to do it? No. From her own words about it, he threatened it all the time, and thats backed up by his own parents and his other friends.

His own idea and he was on antidepressants. She didn't take him seriously. Shes not responsible. Period and she didn't assist him, she provided no way for him to do it, nor was it her idea.

You're assuming she didn't take him seriously. We don't know. We do know that the fellow who is charged with advancing particulars and the case is convinced that she's culpable. The rest is for a jury to weigh. But I've given you why it isn't unreasonable to lay the charge, isn't reaching. It's just, as most cases are, debatable as to the outcome.

Assist in the sense you appear to understand it is more limited than the law. He will argue the points I noted in the case that grants him the latitude, if it gets that far.

 

[GFR7]

She didn't aid him in any way - can you prove she knew he was going to do it? No. From her own words about it, he threatened it all the time, and thats backed up by his own parents and his other friends.

His own idea and he was on antidepressants. She didn't take him seriously. Shes not responsible. Period and she didn't assist him, she provided no way for him to do it, nor was it her idea.

If a person who advocated suicide for terminally ill people said " go ahead" if asked what you think about them comitting suicide because they are in pain, did they assist that person?

No. It wasnt their idea, and they didnt aid them in carrying it out. You keep missing the assist part, there is no evidence that she assisted him in any way. His parents and other friends substantiate it was his idea and he threatened it all the time.

If anyone shares in any responsibility it would be his parents and therapist who put him on antidepressants and knew he was still threatening it. That teen girl is not an adult, not a parent, not a doctor, not a counselor.

But why do you think the police, after going through the texts, felt they could charge her? Don't they know the laws?