young girl tells "friend" to kill himself. Is she responsible?

[Angel4Truth]

You're assuming she didn't take him seriously.

As you are assuming she didnt. She said she thought he would be saying the same thing the next day. You know people have threatened it to try to get attention or to try to get people to do what they want, a teen girl isnt responsible to know the difference here.

His parents and other friends who said he threatened it all the time, i guess they are responsible too, since he wasnt committed for threatening it all the time.

If she assisted it, so did they.

If she were there and saw him preparing and then said what she did, then you would have a case. She wasnt there and didnt know he was serious and there is no way on earth you can prove someones thinking. (That she knew he had it all set up and was actually doing it)

You have a partial cry wolf scenerio here, and thats not her fault.

 

[Angel4Truth]

But why do you think the police, after going through the texts, felt they could charge her? Don't they know the laws?

Because there is a lot of pressure to blame others - especially these days - lack of personal accountability. His grandmother is who is and has been insisting on her being held accountable, his own father says he has has issues for a long time.

Our own president skirts the law, its acceptable anymore.

 

[Town Heretic]

As you are assuming she didnt.

No, I'm not. I'm telling you the trier of fact, with more evidence on hand than either of us, thinks so. And the grand jury agreed.

She said she thought he would be saying the same thing the next day.

She's going to have a problem if the records show her telling him to get back in the truck and he told her what he was doing. Her best hope is that there's some ambiguity. That and her age and his habit. It isn't reasonable to take a suicide threat lightly and many suicides follow repeated threats and considerations. But then teens are rarely reasonable and are, in fact, impaired in terms of judgment.

That makes this, from a distance, a hard case. Which gives reason to suspect the prosecutor has serious bullets in his gun or why advance it?

You know people have threatened it to try to get attention or to try to get people to do what they want, a teen girl isnt responsible to know the difference here.

That has to be part of her defense attorney's strategy. Pull the wanton disregard and transform it into disbelief by way of habit on the part of the declarant.

His parents and other friends who said he threatened it all the time, i guess they are responsible too, since he wasnt committed for threatening it all the time.

If she assisted it, so did they.

Well, no. He called her after interrupting the act and it's her instruction in relation to that which distinguishes and provides the elements not in play with those others.

 

[GFR7]

Because there is a lot of pressure to blame others - especially these days - lack of personal accountability. His grandmother is who is and has been insisting on her being held accountable, his own father says he has has issues for a long time.

Our own president skirts the law, its acceptable anymore.

Yes, it does seem in all areas, people are charged for things that they wouldn't have been in former times......

 

[Angel4Truth]

Well, no. He called her after interrupting the act and it's her instruction in relation to that which distinguishes and provides the elements not in play with those others.

In other words, she didnt give him the idea. He was already in progress, that she couldnt see and determine to be real.

Cry wolf enough and people do not believe you.

 

[Town Heretic]

Speaking to those bullets, from a CBS article by Stephanie Slifer

Fairhaven police Det. Scott Gordon wrote, "Carter not only encouraged Conrad [Roy] to take his own life, she questioned him repeatedly as to when and why he hadn't done it yet, right up to the point of when his final text was sent to her.

The report further alleges that, prior to his death, Roy texted Carter that he was scared and didn't want to leave his family, but despite that, Carter continued to encourage him to take his own life, "and when he actually started to carry out the act, he got scared again and exited his truck but instead of telling him to stay out of the truck and turn off the generator, Carter told him to 'get back in.'"​

If that's sustained her joking defense is looking mighty thin and the prosecutor's zeal is looking a bit more understandable.

 

[Angel4Truth]

Well, no. He called her after interrupting the act and it's her instruction in relation to that which distinguishes and provides the elements not in play with those others.

In other words, she didnt give him the idea. He was already in progress, that she couldnt see and determine to be real.

Cry wolf enough and people do not believe you.

She wasnt there, did not know it to be fact and based on her past experience (and those of his other friends and even admitted by his own father, he threatended it all the time)

Also you admit he was doing it when he contacted her, so how could it be her idea even? It couldnt by any stretch of imagination.

Shes guilty of very bad judgment and being a really crappy friend, but she didnt do it.

 

[GFR7]

Speaking to those bullets, from a CBS article by Stephanie Slifer

Fairhaven police Det. Scott Gordon wrote, "Carter not only encouraged Conrad [Roy] to take his own life, she questioned him repeatedly as to when and why he hadn't done it yet, right up to the point of when his final text was sent to her.

The report further alleges that, prior to his death, Roy texted Carter that he was scared and didn't want to leave his family, but despite that, Carter continued to encourage him to take his own life, "and when he actually started to carry out the act, he got scared again and exited his truck but instead of telling him to stay out of the truck and turn off the generator, Carter told him to 'get back in.'"​

If that's sustained her joking defense is looking mighty thin and the prosecutor's zeal is looking a bit more understandable.

Yes, and this was followed by her posting (after his death) about how shocked she was, how she couldn't understand how he could have done this, etc. : She was clearly laughing up her sleeve.

@Angel: Just another thought. There has been so much material in media and schools the last few years about Suicide Prevention: They tell you signs to look for in teens, family, co-workers, there are 800 Hotline numbers to call, etc. So I think the general consensus is that her actions were criminal---

What if he had texted her, "I am following a child and thinking of molesting her, but am scared to" and she had texted back, "Do it!". What would most people think?

 

[Angel4Truth]

Yes, and this was followed by her posting (after his death) about how shocked she was, how she couldn't understand how he could have done this, etc. : She was clearly laughing up her sleeve.

@Angel: Just another thought. There has been so much material in media and schools the last few years about Suicide Prevention: They tell you signs to look for in teens, family, co-workers, there are 800 Hotline numbers to call, etc. So I think the general consensus is that her actions were criminal---

What if he had texted her, "I am following a child and thinking of molesting her, but am scared to" and she had texted back, "Do it!". What would most people think?

Bad comparison - not even remotely the same.

One more time, since all his other friends and his parents knew he threatened suicide all the time, why wasnt he commited by his parents? Why are his other friends not guilty of notifying authorities of his often threats? Thats part of the record. They didnt do anything, shouldnt they be prosecuted too under this we know what someone is thinking and actually doing -scenerio?

They didnt contact anyone either, meaning they didnt believe it either, how could they since they did nothing about it?

Not liking how someone handled something and blaming them for what another person decided to do themselves, is not right.

 

[GFR7]

Bad comparison - not even remotely the same.

One more time, since all his other friends and his parents knew he threatened suicide all the time, why wasnt he commited by his parents? Why are his other friends not guilty of notifying authorities of his often threats? Thats part of the record. They didnt do anything, shouldnt they be prosecuted too under this we know what someone is thinking scenerio?

Not really a bad comparison, because in both cases there is the failure to notify authorities, and the persuading the person to act. Very similar charges could be made and have been made in the suicide case.

Well, his grandmother said he had stabilized for quite some time, and they all thought he was beyond the mental health issues....

 

[Angel4Truth]

Not really a bad comparison, because in both cases there is the failure to notify authorities, and the persuading the person to act. Very similar charges could be made and have been made in the suicide case.

Well, his grandmother said he had stabilized for quite some time, and they all thought he was beyond the mental health issues....

Thats not what his father said. I would think immediate parents know better than his grandparent who wants someone to pay.

And no, your scenerio was poor, it involved more than just the person in question - it was about a crime against another person - totally different.

 

[GFR7]

Thats not what his father said. I would think immediate parents know better than his grandparent who wants someone to pay.

And no, your scenerio was poor, it involved more than just the person in question - it was about a crime against another person - totally different.

Different in that way, yes, but she could argue in the molestation case, she was not there, didn't do it, even though she encouraged it. Just trying to imagine other scenarios where one could be charged without actually committing the crime. And, Suicide is against the law.

 

[Angel4Truth]

Different in that way, yes, but she could argue in the molestation case, she was not there, didn't do it, even though she encouraged it. Just trying to imagine other scenarios where one could be charged without actually committing the crime. And, Suicide is against the law.

Again- bad comparison on the molestation thing.

Also your reasoning on the 2nd part, means his parents and all his other friends who knew he threatened it all the time, should also be being prosecuted since they knew he threatened to do it all the time too and his father knew he had tried before and so did his therapist.

Convict all of them right? Because we can prove (like we can prove about her) they all took it seriously and did nothing. Right?

We can prove thoughts now. 10 to one this girl wont be convicted of anything . She wasnt there and didnt know he was actually doing it.

 

[GFR7]

Again- bad comparison on the molestation thing.

Also your reasoning on the 2nd part, means his parents and all his other friends who knew he threatened it all the time, should also be being prosecuted since they knew he threatened to do it all the time too and his father knew he had tried before and so did his therapist.

Convict all of them right? Because we can prove (like we can prove about her) they all took it seriously and did nothing. Right?

We can prove thoughts now. 10 to one this girl wont be convicted of anything . She wasnt there and didnt know he was actually doing it.

Well, in my own defense in posted comments on articles, others have brought up bank robbery, sex crimes, etc: Would texting encouragement now get you charged as having caused the crime?

The police charged this girl because she was communicating with him right at the moment he did it. Time will tell. What about the college boy charged with having caused (in a roundabout way) that gay teen's suicide?

Rutgers suicide verdict: Dharun Ravi guilty of invasion of privacy


NEW BRUNSWICK, N.J. (AP) - A former Rutgers University student accused of using a webcam to spy on his gay roommate's love life was convicted of all counts Friday in a case that exploded into the headlines when the victim of the snooping committed suicide by throwing himself off a bridge.
Continue reading

Clementi, 18, committed suicide after being filmed during an intimate encounter with another man. (Photo: Facebook) (Photo: Associated Press)
Dharun Ravi, 20, shook his head slightly after the guilty verdicts were read for all 15 counts, including bias intimidation - a hate crime that was based on the victim's sexual orientation - and invasion of privacy.
He could get years in prison - and could be deported to his native India, even though he has lived legally in the U.S. since he was a little boy - for his part in an act that cast a spotlight on teen suicide and anti-gay bullying and illustrated the Internet's potential for tormenting others.



http://www.wjla.com/articles/2012/0...-invasion-of-privacy-73844.html#ixzz3c9J58kQB

 

[Angel4Truth]

Well, in my own defense in posted comments on articles, others have brought up bank robbery, sex crimes, etc: Would texting encouragement now get you charged as having caused the crime?

The police charged this girl because she was communicating with him right at the moment he did it. Time will tell. What about the college boy charged with having caused (in a roundabout way) that gay teen's suicide?

Rutgers suicide verdict: Dharun Ravi guilty of invasion of privacy


NEW BRUNSWICK, N.J. (AP) - A former Rutgers University student accused of using a webcam to spy on his gay roommate's love life was convicted of all counts Friday in a case that exploded into the headlines when the victim of the snooping committed suicide by throwing himself off a bridge.
Continue reading

Clementi, 18, committed suicide after being filmed during an intimate encounter with another man. (Photo: Facebook) (Photo: Associated Press)
Dharun Ravi, 20, shook his head slightly after the guilty verdicts were read for all 15 counts, including bias intimidation - a hate crime that was based on the victim's sexual orientation - and invasion of privacy.
He could get years in prison - and could be deported to his native India, even though he has lived legally in the U.S. since he was a little boy - for his part in an act that cast a spotlight on teen suicide and anti-gay bullying and illustrated the Internet's potential for tormenting others.



http://www.wjla.com/articles/2012/0...-invasion-of-privacy-73844.html#ixzz3c9J58kQB

Which is a good reason to try to get prosecutions based on thoughts is a horrible idea. (he wasnt convicted of manslaughter - theres a reason he wasnt, he didnt make the person do what they did and he didnt assist them in it) Another bad comparison.


However, under thought crimes - you could be held accountable one day for saying homosexuality is wrong if someone listened to you and killed themselves, in fact the bible could be made illegal, since it points out sin and someone might kill themselves, right?

Where can you show this girl tormented him, you cant, you also cant prove it was her idea for him to commit suicide, since his own family admits he had tried before he even knew her. Which is why he was on antidepressants. And you cannot prove she made him do it or knew he was actually doing it since you cant prove her thinking.

Do you really want to set a precedent for everyone else being responsible for what an individual decides to do themselves?

 

[PureX]

She is responsible for *encouraging* him to end his life. Had she called 911 OR notified his family of what he was getting ready to do, he might have received the suicide intervention needed to get him past this dark period in his life.

Apparently for her, the idea of death and the ongoing grief of his family was a joke.

Why is his mental illness excusable and hers not?

 

[PureX]

I would like to know her thinking or side on it.

Why?

 

[Town Heretic]

Yes, and this was followed by her posting (after his death) about how shocked she was, how she couldn't understand how he could have done this, etc. : She was clearly laughing up her sleeve.

Maybe. I don't know if it was that or if the enormity of what she'd been a party to hit her and she was trying to protect herself.

All I know is that what's reported doesn't look good, the prosecutor and the grand jury believe there's reason to go forward with the involuntary manslaughter charge and given the case law I noted I can see why. The rest should play out along the lines I noted, with the trier of fact determining the truth of the matter.

Why is his mental illness excusable and hers not?

We don't know that she's mentally ill. We do know that he was.

 

[PureX]

Similar to what Rusha has said, she viewed his death as a bit of fun ...

How do you know this?

And if she did, isn't that a sickness, too, just like the male's sickness in wanting to die?

So why are you so quick to excuse his sickness but not hers?

Why do you want so badly to have someone to blame, besides him?

She looked forward to being the grieving best friend, holding a vigil for him, posting Facebook messages to his parents.

How do your know her intent? And if this was her intent, isn't that a mental/emotional illness?

This is why she said "Get back in." when he got out of the car.

How do you know this is why she said it? Or are you just presuming this is so because you want to believe it's so? And if so, what's that say about you?

She should have called 911.

He should not have killed himself.

He didn't really want to go through with it.

Then why did he?

How deplorable was her behavior?

Why is her behavior any more "deplorable" than his?

 

[PureX]

I agree with you in the legal sense. No, she didn't assist him. But can you imagine if one of your own children was feeling this way, and their "best friend" texted them to "go ahead and do it". Wouldn't you want to punish the person somehow?

Sounds like she is even more screwed up than him. So why do you want her punished, yet completely excuse and forgive him?