young girl tells "friend" to kill himself. Is she responsible?

[bybee]

That would seem reasonable, except that I'd have a little trouble seeing verbal encouragement, alone, as aiding and abetting a criminal act. Providing the gun, disposing of a body, etc., these I would consider 'aiding and abetting' a criminal act. Giving verbal instructions I could accept (she may have done this) as aiding and abetting. But verbal encouragement, alone, … I'm not seeing that as aiding and abetting.

Between two equals, yes. Point taken.
However, between unequal persons an obligation is owing for the stronger to at least be careful of the weaker.

 

[Granite]

Between two equals, yes. Point taken.
However, between unequal persons an obligation is owing for the stronger to at least be careful of the weaker.

He either can't or won't see the weakness inherent to a suicidal individual and the unevenness of the playing field in question. He seems to believe this girl and the victim were equals, somehow.

 

[PureX]

As Shakespeare said, the greatest crimes can be "born of an airy word". Words have consequences.

Yes, words have effect, and effects have consequences. But words do not negate our ability to act of our own accord. And I see no way around this simple fact.

 

[Granite]

Yes, words have effect, and effects have consequences. But words do not negate our ability to act of our own accord. And I see no way around this simple fact.

You keep on setting a standard for the suicidal that by definition is impossible for them to attain. I think at this rate it's more about ego for you and refusal to admit you've dug yourself too deep. Ridiculous.

 

[PureX]

Between two equals, yes. Point taken.
However, between unequal persons an obligation is owing for the stronger to at least be careful of the weaker.

Isn't equality under the law a fundamental principal of our justice system? And if you are going to claim the man was somehow "unequal", how are you going to show this to be so?

Just because someone wants to die does not prove that he has lost the ability to reason for himself and make his own choices. And if you're claiming it does, then how do you justify that claim?

 

[PureX]

You keep on setting a standard for the suicidal that by definition is impossible for them to attain. I think at this rate it's more about ego for you and refusal to admit you've dug yourself too deep. Ridiculous.

You are claiming that wanting to die is proof of his loss of self-control, but you can't logically back that up. And you're getting frustrated because it appears 'self-evident' to you and you assume it should be self-evident to me, too. But it's not self-evident to me, which is why it is not self-evident to me that she is responsible for his actions. All the "explanations" I've seen so far rely on the idea that he must have lost his ability of autonomous action because he wanted to act against his own well-being. Yet no one has explained logically why this must be so.

 

[Granite]

You are claiming that wanting to die is proof of his loss of self-control, but you can't logically back that up. And you're getting frustrated because it appears 'self-evident' to you and you assume it should be self-evident to me, too. But it's not self-evident to me, which is why it is not self-evident to me that she is responsible for his actions. All the "explanations" I've seen so far rely on the idea that he must have lost his ability of autonomous action because he wanted to act against his own well-being. Yet no one has explained logically why this must be so.

Then you're either playing dumb at this point or have a complete blind spot that isn't going away any time soon. I'm baffled at this.

 

[bybee]

Isn't equality under the law a fundamental principal of our justice system? And if you are going to claim the man was somehow "unequal", how are you going to show this to be so?

Just because someone wants to die does not prove that he has lost the ability to reason for himself and make his own choices. And if you're claiming it does, then how do you justify that claim?

Well now, if he had physical infirmities they would be obvious. But he has/had a mental infirmity which, also may be obvious.
It is not the norm to want to die.
It is not the norm to encourage someone to die.
I am not blaming this Hag for his murder you obtuse twit! I'm blaming her for immoral, despicable behavior.

 

[PureX]

You are claiming that wanting to die is proof of his loss of self-control, but you can't logically back that up.

Then you're either playing dumb at this point or have a complete blind spot that isn't going away any time soon. I'm baffled at this.

You keep posting this, but still you have not justified your presumption that the man's desire to die proves his loss of self-determination. It being 'obvious to you' is not a logical justification. Neither are the sideways insults.

 

[Granite]

You keep posting this, but still you have not justified your presumption that the man's desire to die proves his loss of self-determination.

Feeling suicidal is the definition of this, is it not? How does the loss of a will to live not factor into this choice? Ridiculous. He was in a place of despair, and she gave him the encouragement necessary for him to die. For you to keep defending this rotten cretin makes me seriously wonder what kind of heartsickness you're dealing with.

Like I said before (in a post you completely ignored), don't volunteer at the crisis center any time soon. With help like yours...

Neither are the sideways insults.

Spare me. You've tossed a couple yourself.

 

[PureX]

Well now, if he had physical infirmities they would be obvious. But he has/had a mental infirmity which, also may be obvious.
It is not the norm to want to die.

No, but it's also not proof that he was 'infirm'.

It is not the norm to encourage someone to die.

That's also true, but it's also true that she may have been 'infirm' in some way. We just don't know, in either case.

I am not blaming this Hag for his murder you obtuse twit! I'm blaming her for immoral, despicable behavior.

Sure, but that and a dollar will get you a dollar's worth of coffee.

 

[PureX]

Feeling suicidal is the definition of this, is it not?

How so? How does feeling suicidal equate to a loss of self-determination? Isn't wanting to die a determined want? Isn't acting on that want a determined course of action? Even turning oneself over to the control of another person would be a self-determined act, wouldn't it? So where is self-determination being lost in this?

 

[Granite]

How so? How does feeling suicidal equate to a loss of self-determination? Isn't wanting to die a determined want? Isn't acting on that want a determined course of action? Even turning oneself over to the control of another person would be a self-determined act, wouldn't it? So where is self-determination being lost in this?

It would depend on the circumstances but I am trying to stay on point. In this particular instance we're talking about a vulnerable individual preyed on by another individual--one you have already admitted is sick in the head and who could have (should have?) intervened for the better. She chose not to. And in a very bizarre twist you're expending considerable time and energy attempting to victim blame and sidestep this woman's culpability.

Frankly, dealing with you on this thread's starting to make me feel sick.

 

[bybee]

No, but it's also not proof that he was 'infirm'.
That's also true, but it's also true that she may have been 'infirm' in some way. We just don't know, in either case.
Sure, but that and a dollar will get you a dollar's worth of coffee.

Are you having fun?

 

[PureX]

Are you having fun?

Yes, I am.

When I first saw this thread I was a little puzzled but the visceral revulsion people seemed to be expressing toward this woman. When my own reaction was that it was just two sick people who sicknesses interacted to inflame each other until one of them ended up dead. I wasn't outraged, just curious. And then as the discussion went on I realized that this weird incident happens to bring up some very interesting questions about personal responsibility, and about how our ideas can effect the ideas of others … or not. And thereby effect their actions … or not. And how does that play out in terms of responsibility. It was actually a very tangled knot of legality, philosophy, morality, and practicality; of just the sort that I find interesting to contemplate and discuss/debate.

So yes, I do find this fun, even if you all find it annoying.